Pension for widow if married after retirement

Sadly my dad died recently. He had been with my mother for nearly 30 years when they married when he was 65, shortly after retirement. They were unable to marry before then as the divorce referendum had not been passed, and he had to officially divorce his 1st wife. Now, 20 years later, my mother has learned that she is not eligible for his occupational pension as they were not married when he was working, despite living together and having a large family. This has added financial stress to her grief. Can she contest this as they could not have wed sooner. Thanks for any advice, she does not know where to start.

I assume that your father retired from a Defined Benefit scheme.
Assuming that is so and that he was not married at the time he retired, then it would be normal practice that no “widows pension “ would be payable. As far as the scheme is concerned, he was “single “ when he retired. Such schemes do not generally allow for retirees to marry after retirement so as to gain a right to a widows pension.
I understand your mothers concern, but it could be argued that your father could have gotten a “foreign divorce” and possibly remarried abroad. In any event the schemes liability matured on retirement and at that stage they were not married. Schemes find it difficult (impossible) to cater for people simply living together, irrespective of how long (or how short) that might be.
Perhaps your mother could make an appeal to the Trustees.

As Conan said, your best bet is make an appeal directly to the trustees that not being eligible to the widows pension is causing financial stress. But there would be no obligation on the trustees to pay a widows pension. It is your marital status when a member of the scheme and not afterwards.

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie

Thanks for your help. Should she appeal to the trustees herself or via a solicitor?

She should appeal herself, legally she has no right to this pension. The trustees will be making a decision based on their own discretion, the personal approach would work better than through a solicitor.

As a matter of interest, is the pension scheme involved a private, public or civil service scheme? And, for the financial guru members, does it make a difference?

I was expecting someone would already have asked by now Hollyhocks so I will ask so it gets aired,
Was he still married to his first wife when he retired ,
I suspect the pension would have got a mention as part of a settlement when he got Divorced from his first wife,

Eithneangela , Every scheme when set up have clauses and trustees have to follow them very carefully or the will finish up being sued for infringement if they do not follow the rules very carefully,

Some take out Insurance to cover they will not be allowed to make any changes or they will not be covered,

Some scheme set up rules say you have to pay a little extra for spouses' and children pension schemes no allowance was made if you were single or married had to be paid by all, ,
Other schemes allowed you to take a lower pension and opt for joint pension paying 50% to the surviving spouse

Others allowed you to buy widows/widowers surviving pension using part of your lump sum and get the tax back over as many years as it takes ,

I suspect you already know from this reply and other replys on this forum I am not a financial guru,

A well known poster on hear posted about a co worker who retired and never included there spouse she only found out after he died in the past year on this forum,

Wow, that’s some metamorphosis of my username. In any event, I asked a clear cut question which your response did not answer. Directed to the OP, is the pension private company, public service or civil service?
My sympathies on the death of your father, Hollyhocks.

Sorry, I’m new to this and didn’t know there were replies.
It’s a public service pension.
He divorced before he retired, as soon as he could after the referendum, but married 2 months after retirement, as they gave 3 months notice.
I’m sure they could have reduced the notice given to expediate the marriage, but they never foresaw any issues.
My dad died fully expecting her to get a portion of his pension. She has written to the trustees and has not heard back.
Thanks for all your help.

Hollyhocks said:

It’s a public service pension

Click to expand...

Hi Hollyhocks,

Although I have no direct experience of this, The refusal of a pension in your family situation seems strange. How long was your father in the Public Service? I ask because prior to 1984 public service schemes provided pensions to survivors when the marriage had taken place prior to retirement only. From then on the schemes (in general) provide for a survivor pension in the case of marriage after retirement. Everyone who joined after 1984 joined under these new terms. Pre-existing people were given the option to opt in or out (there were financial and administrative variations). If your father was a public servant before 1984 and did not then opt into the new scheme, then the decision in this case makes sense and there is probably no way back.

As there are so many sectors of the public service it is quite possible that there were indivivual variations but this is my general understanding. You need to get the documentation for the specific scheme of which he was a member and, also, find out if he was a member of the "Revised Scheme" as opposed to the original pre-1984 scheme. His previous employer should be able to provide this information.

See Section 16 of this document for more details:
http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/superannuationhandbookandguidancedec20061.pdf

Also, this reply to a Dail question (the question itself does not directly relate to your situation but the reply does, I think):
https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-07-02a.22

PS Is his first wife the recipient of the survivor's pension by any chance?

His ex wife is not in receipt of his pension. Thanks for that post, I’ll chase that.