Overtime vs worked up time

otquestion

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Hi
Just registered here as I'm trying to work through a question at work that has me metaphorically banging my head against a wall. I'm in discussions with HR but seem to be at an impasse. It would be great if someone on here could cast some knowledgeable experience over my question.

I work for a company that has an annual shutdown for 2 weeks.
I am staff so on a salary but the company does pay overtime to staff for work outside normal hours.
Most of the company does not work during this shutdown - with mainly the exception being the maintenance dept.

All employees have a standard holiday allowance of 19 days to be taken at any time during the year.
In addition the company has a policy where all employees work a 40 hr week which builds up time that allows them to take the shutdown period as worked up holidays. So in effect most of the company have approx. 6 weeks holidays per year
All employees are paid their salaries in 12 equal monthly payments.

The company overtime rate is documented as T + 150% for working during the shutdown period. Which although quite high has been confirmed as correct by HR.
The company does allow overtime to be taken as holidays on an hour per hour basis instead of pay.

I worked during the shutdown period (I don't have to but I had a lot on)

So as I worked shutdown this year, I was expecting to get the actual overtime hours worked paid at a rate of T+150% so for every 8 hours worked that would equate to 20 hrs pay.

Further to this I was also expecting to get the worked up holidays, that I didn't take because I worked overtime, credited to me as either time for time hours or as straight pay at the standard rate (because I worked up these days and didn't get to take them because I worked during the shutdown period)

When I got paid I saw that I was paid at a rate of T + 50% (this was also clearly written on the payslip) for the hours I worked during shutdown and there was no compensation for my worked up holidays.

The HR line is that I was paid T + 150% and that the T part was already paid in my salary that month so the overtime payment as documented on the payslip was the 150%. However my argument is that I would have been paid this amount that they are calling "T" if I didn't work because it is payment for worked up hours - so it cannot also be counted as T for the extra overtime hours worked.
Although it seems simple - it gets quite complicated to work out.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone could throw any light on the problem.
 
I think your company's HR is correct but has done a poor job of explaining how the pay for the shut down period is calculated.

If you didn't work for the period you would have received 2 full weeks pay as you have built up the o/t by working 40 hour weeks. In your instance they are calling the paid 2 weeks T which is 100% of your normal pay. Because you worked the shutdown period you received an additional T + 50% = 150% (100% + 50%) of your normal pay. You add the initial T paid as part of your normal salary to this you get 250%.

T= 100%
T + 150% = 250%

I am assuming that the normal rate of overtime with the company is T + 50%?
 
Hi
Thanks for the reply.
But isn't my initial T paid to me for as part of normal salary paid for time I have already worked.
So the OT I work at shutdown is "new" extra time and if the OT rate is T + 150% then those hours are to be paid at 250% rate??
 
Sorry the rate - for OT for a Sat is T + 0.75 and there are various other rates for Sunday, Bank holiday etc which are higher. Bank holiday is same rate as shutdown day (i.e. T + 150%) All are listed on the same guidelines page as T + X%
 
otquestion, are you still getting a different 10 days in lieu of the 10 days you would normally have taken during the shutdown?
If so then you should have been paid time + 50%. If not then they still owe you for that 10 days.
 
Sorry the rate - for OT for a Sat is T + 0.75 and there are various other rates for Sunday, Bank holiday etc which are higher. Bank holiday is same rate as shutdown day (i.e. T + 150%) All are listed on the same guidelines page as T + X%

Do you get an extra day in lieu in addition to the T +150% for bank holidays?
 
I am not getting the 10 days in lieu of the days I would normally take during shutdown.
I just confirmed that if I worked a bank holiday they are saying I would already be paid T so I would get at extra 150% and no day in lieu.
 
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Sounds like you are owed 10 days pay or holidays so.
It does seem like a very strange arrangement within the company though. I have never heard of any business paying 250% of the standard rate for any overtime.
 
Purple
I suspect you did not see otquestion reply to me
Where I worked before I retired we had a working in time system since around 1980 they were put in as a tool to reduce absenteeism and they worked very well provided you had a system in place to avoid loopholes developing. I suspect having to take worked up time at the August shutdown may be one of them so people could not kick there worked in time into the month of December and all start taking them at the same time, It works very well provided everyone understands the system and how it works ,
If a company nominated a day or date or event worked in time had to be taken by this can trigger cashing in the days worked up if not taken,
Unless you fully know and understand exactly how the checks and balances work it is hard to be sure the advice you or I given is correct,

The fact otquestion is paid in 12 equal monthly payments makes it harder to understand
I suggested to break it down into 52 weeks and take it to HR. seeing shutdown starts first week in August,
It should be very easy to understand who is correct if you were to look at a worked up payslip for the first week of the shutdown where all payments due are in the one place,
 
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The OP worked an extra 10 days over the year which are usually paid during the shutdown. They then worked the shutdown which is paid at an overtime rate of 50%.
Therefore they are due 10 days pay for the time worked up + 10 days pay for the time worked during the shutdown + 5 days pay for the 50% overtime rate given for the time worked during the shutdown.
They have worked 20 days, 10 of which were at a 50% overtime rate. That's 25 pay dyas. They have been paid for 15 days.
 
The OP worked an extra 10 days over the year which are usually paid during the shutdown. They then worked the shutdown which is paid at an overtime rate of 50%.
Therefore they are due 10 days pay for the time worked up + 10 days pay for the time worked during the shutdown + 5 days pay for the 50% overtime rate given for the time worked during the shutdown.
They have worked 20 days, 10 of which were at a 50% overtime rate. That's 25 pay dyas. They have been paid for 15 days.

The worked up time comes from when the working week changed from 40 hrs to 39 hrs, I have seen it counted as an extra 52 hrs ,( 6.5 Days )
I have also seen it counted as as an extra 48 hrs because when you are on holidays you are not working in time (so 6 days

The op stated the worked in time was 6 days the company added another 3 days bringing it up to 9 days
The op also stated the worked the shutdown for 9 days they did not work the bank holiday
That is all we know from the posting ,

HR appear not to have done a very good job if I understand the poster correctly


I suspect they also did not do a very good Job when the set up the working in time,

The problem is to get HR to agree everything the op says is correct,


That is why I suggested breaking shutdown into weekly pay I suspect this will help OP when it comes to HR,
 
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The extra 52 hours were overtime so should count as 78 hours or 2 x 39 hour weeks.
 
The extra 52 hours were overtime so should count as 78 hours or 2 x 39 hour weeks.
Worked in time is not overtime it is time worked in to be taken at a later date each hour worked/given is an hour to be taken at a later date,

Op has explained that in there first post,

Purple the Bearded Brethren will be out of breath trying to keep up to you,:D shortie has you ruined,

Sorry Shortie;)
by any chance do you work in HR an extra 52 overtime hours where did you get 78 hrs 2 X 39
 
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The OP worked an extra 10 days over the year which are usually paid during the shutdown. They then worked the shutdown which is paid at an overtime rate of 50%.
Therefore they are due 10 days pay for the time worked up + 10 days pay for the time worked during the shutdown + 5 days pay for the 50% overtime rate given for the time worked during the shutdown.
They have worked 20 days, 10 of which were at a 50% overtime rate. That's 25 pay dyas. They have been paid for 15 days.

I think the OP has been paid for 25 days but it's not clear.

The HR line is that I was paid T + 150% and that the T part was already paid in my salary that month so the overtime payment as documented on the payslip was the 150%.

Maybe otquestion could clarify?
 
OP has gotten: T (paid as normal wages)+ T+50% (OT hours)
This would be fine if holidays were credited as you would be getting T+150% for hours worked
If holidays were not credited, as per HR, they should have gotten
T (as normal wages for holidays) + T+150% for hours worked during shutdown
 
Hi. Just to update on this. It looks like HR are finally admitting they wrote the policy with T for Sat OT meaning hours worked and T for shutdown meaning pay you got for worked up time. So in effect the OT rate for shutdown is actually T + 50%They are looking at changing the doc. So stupid and extremely frustrating.
 
I suspected as much ,that is why I was saying to break it down into a payslip including all money paid for each week you worked shutdown ,if you then placed the worked up pay per shutdown week as per the policy doc side by side the game was up for HR,
I always take an interest in how companies operate and pay worked up time ,The Company I worked for started using worked up time back around 1980 and have refined it to fit around family and the real World where employee may need to take time off at short notice that works for both employee and employer and handled correctly works very well,
 
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