Additional maternity leave followed by parental leave

Hi all,
My wife is approaching the end of her 26 weeks maternity leave, and intends to issue 4 weeks notice that she will be taking the additional maternity leave of 16 weeks.

She is also considering taking the 18 weeks parental leave straight after the 16 weeks, and would be providing the 6 weeks notice for this leave.

So we have a couple of questions:

1. Is there anything to prevent maternity and parental leave being taking consecutively like this, once all notice periods are adhered to?
2. In terms of being open and transparent with her employer, should she state her intention to take the parental leave consecutively at the time when notifying them of the additional maternity leave?
3. In terms of total leave during this period, am I correct in understanding that it would be the 14 weeks additional maternity + 18 weeks parental leave + any holidays accrued + public/bank holidays falling due during this time?

Thanks,
Tom

If she has a good relationship with them, and they treat staff fairly then it can be best discuss all the options in advance. If they know her plans, the company can arrange cover in advance. If they are told with the minimum notice, the employer is entitled to postpone the leave if they believe it would have an adverse affect on the business.

Read through this for full details of Parental Leave entitlements.

thos said:

In terms of being open and transparent with her employer, should she state her intention to take the parental leave consecutively at the time when notifying them of the additional maternity leave?

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It is downright rude and shows a lack of character not to give as much notice as she possibly can. In the end the work she does will have to be done by someone else or shared amongst her co-workers. The less time she gives the greater the burden on others.

Most supervisors/managers expect that after Maternity Leave there will be some changes even before Mom decides even to return to work. Furthermore, they also know that Mom will need some changes after she returns to work. Parental Leave is not going to get any shorter as Ireland progresses as a nation and all of us should look compassionately at Moms returning to work after giving birth.

It’s key to engage with one’s employer early on these things.

People who adhere religiously to notice periods etc tend to find their employer equally inflexible where there is the potential for discretion. It is best to engage early and honestly on these things.

Just for the record:- Moms do not get paid during Parental Leave or Additional Maternity Leave (neither do they qualify for service towards the pension in the Public Service). During my working life I noticed that most objectors to Parental Leave or Additional Maternity Leave were female. The majority of males accepted the leaves without question.

Half the workforce can become pregnant. This is the half that where most objectors are. It says a lot about us as a caring people.

Of course, we have many of our female tv personalities informing us that "I couldn't just stay at home minding junior, so I returned to work three days after leaving the maternity hospital." They neglect to inform us that they can afford to employ nannies, childminders and creches and have unending support from grandad and grandma. But, the vast majority of moms cannot afford such support. Therefore, I wish some of our tv personalities would keep their mouths shut in dictating to others and occasionally they should even try to tell the full truth if they are capable of such. Withdraw their fame from them and look at what is left - usually ultra shallow stupid looking fools farting in free sponsored silk.

Trade Unions have always promoted Maternity/Paternity Leave. We wouldn't have these leaves but for the Trade Unions. Don't forget the days when women had to relinquish their civil/public service jobs on marriage; later extended to two years of marriage. I can even remember a Late Late Show regarding unemployment in Ireland and seeing the majority of the audience (mainly university students) baying for married women to be "retired" immediately. There was not much objections from the rest of the population either. Thank God, we have moved on from those days. Think about it for a moment, an obligation to give up earning a living on marriage.

I like to think we've moved on favourably from those days. We have, but there is always more to do. We look at the Finlands, Swedens, Norways where childbirth is nurtured and appreciated. However, when we try to get ahead here on anything, we have the objectors, the moaners, the begrudgers etc.

I spent most of my working life as an unpaid union representative in the public service. I can safely say that the number of maternity issues by far outnumbered all others combined. Trade Unions and Employers should not lose sight of this. OK! you're female, upwardly mobile, ambitious, sacrificing motherhood for your career. That's your choice, but allow other people to have their choice too.

Leper said:

Just for the record:- Moms do not get paid during Parental Leave or Additional Maternity Leave (neither do they qualify for service towards the pension in the Public Service).

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The pay I understand, but my understanding is that the credits are available

From welfare.ie:

Can I qualify for Credits while I am getting Maternity Benefit or am on unpaid Maternity Leave?

Credits while you are on unpaid Maternity Leave

If you choose to take any additional unpaid leave, you must apply to Maternity Benefit Section to have credits added to your record for the period of this unpaid leave (up to a maximum of 16 weeks) after you return to work.

Under the terms of the Maternity Protection Act, 1994, if you are in insurable employment, an employment contribution may be credited to your record for each week that you take additional unpaid maternity leave (up to a maximum of 16 weeks). This makes sure that your cover for social welfare benefits is kept up to date.In order to have credits added to your record for the period of your unpaid leave, you must get
your employer to complete the application form for Maternity Leave Credits on page 23 after you return to work only.


And


Can I qualify for parental leave credits?

As a parent, you may take parental leave, either as a continuous block of 18 weeks or, with the agreement of your employer, broken up over a period of time.

If you take parental leave you will get a credit for each full week you take. This will ensure that your existing cover for social welfare payments is maintained.

Good post and I agree with you on this;

Leper said:

Trade Unions have always promoted Maternity/Paternity Leave. We wouldn't have these leaves but for the Trade Unions.

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Don't forget that Fathers are parents too. If we want to stop women feeling disadvantages in work because they have children then we have to look at why they feel that way; It's because it is true, they are disadvantaged. If we want to fix that then we need to make fathers part of the solution. Mothers get 6 months maternity leave at the moment. How about splitting that between both parents? As long as men don't take big chunks of leave after they have a child and women do women will be disadvantaged in the workplace. No amount of legislation will change that reality, especially in the SME sector where small organisations just don't have the resources to lose a key employee for 6 months and so will, all else being equal, employ a man before employing a woman for those roles.

I don't think splitting the 6 months leave between parents is the answer. There is a very good reason for the 6 months, which is to encourage and facilitate exclusive breastfeeding for the first 6 months. Breastfeeding rates in Ireland are already low, so a reduction in maternity leave would have a detrimental effect IMO. I hear horror stories from friends in America returning to work when babies are very young, trying to pump at work and then getting stressed out and giving up. That is not something that we would want to happen here.

I'm with Andarma, but Purple (to his credit) brought up an important side subject i.e. Dad's role in Parental/Paternity Leave. Most fathers find it easier to attend work than looking after childrens' matters. Nice One! Men - the easy option when everything is considered. However, there are times when the male of the species must step up to the child caring mark. Trade Unions can help here. But, if a problem is not known, it does not exist. Men tend to become more uninformative in such matters. Perhaps a sign of male weakness is perceived? But, of course we're the stronger sex, we don't ask directions when lost, we are entitled masters to our own destiny.

On the other hand most women tend to share problems and appear more willing to put career progression on ice to look after junior. That seems to be the stereotypical norm.

I have no solutions to change anything around parental issues in the workplace, but a few short years ago we never foresaw the collapse of the Berlin Wall. We thought we'd never see a Pope being driven into walls of public protest in Ireland. We have lots of time and eventually obstacles will be overcome; all it takes is time and a mega shift of attitude.

Leper said:

Most fathers find it easier to attend work than looking after childrens' matters.

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As a working father of 4 children I was their primary caregiver when I was married (cooking, laundry, bedtime, blow drying daughters hair, sewing on buttons, etc) and now, as a single parent, I have two of them full time and two of them part time. Thankfully I taught them to cook and load a washing machine (but I still do all the ironing) so they can share the housework but I'm still the primary caregiver (though my ex-wife still gets all the children's allowance and the double tax free allowance). Amongst my friends I am in no way exceptional and, with respect, I think your views are very outdated.

It is much harder in an employment situation for a man to take time off to look after children. If he has to leave early or come in late it will have a more significant negative impact on his career than if a woman does it as there is an expectations that mothers do that stuff and fathers don't. That may be different in the protected sectors of the economy but most people work in the SME sector where margins are tighter and organisations are smaller so one person being out can have a big impact.

Leper said:

On the other hand most women tend to share problems and appear more willing to put career progression on ice to look after junior. That seems to be the stereotypical norm.

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It's also the societal expectation. The support structures are there (have you ever heard of a fathers and toddlers group?). To be a stay at home father is a lonely life.

Purple said:

(have you ever heard of a fathers and toddlers group?). To be a stay at home father is a lonely life.

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I feel ya. I managed to take 2 months off on our first born when my wife went back to work, went along to the local 'parent and toddler' group, and never felt more awkward. Like walking into a bar in a movie where everything freezes. Did some Jamboree baby classes, same thing.
I read an article about gay dads feeling outcast, but I doubt anyone cared they were gay - just that they were stay at home dads!

If you look at Sweden, they've got an amazing model, 480 days in total, usable up to child age of 18, with a fixed portion of time (i think it's 6 months) which has to be taken by the Dads. They've got the 'Latte Dads' scene for parenting Dads, and seems to be much more part of life.

I think the other issue we have here is the gender pay gap and other diversity issues within companies, meaning that the dads are most typically the higher earners, coupled with very high childcare cost, and it's often the mother who gives up work to care for the kids while dad continues to work.

thos said:

I think the other issue we have here is the gender pay gap and other diversity issues within companies, meaning that the dads are most typically the higher earners, coupled with very high childcare cost, and it's often the mother who gives up work to care for the kids while dad continues to work.

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The reason for the gender pay gap is that women work shorter hours and spend fewer years in the workforce. The gender pay gap is a misnomer.

Purple said:

The reason for the gender pay gap is that women work shorter hours and spend fewer years in the workforce. The gender pay gap is a misnomer.

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because they spend more time picking kids up from creche and staying home to mind them? Is that not the spiral we're caught in?

thos said:

because they spend more time picking kids up from creche and staying home to mind them? Is that not the spiral we're caught in?

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Yep, and as long as we legislate to reinforce that spiral it will stay that way.
Of course the reality is that women are more likely to want to do those things then men (I think I'm an exception) but that doesn't excuse the legislative bias which reinforces the current norm.

Leper said:

OK! you're female, upwardly mobile, ambitious, sacrificing motherhood for your career. That's your choice, but allow other people to have their choice too.

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It's not a case of not allowing other people have their choice - I totally support maternity/paternity/parental lave etc., but I do find it unfair that when it comes to staying late/extra projects/extra travel etc., it is always landed on those without children because those with children play the "family commitments" card - there should be equality of workloads are fairness when it comes to going the extra mile, not just that everything gets landed on those without children! I think that's what can sometimes frustrate people.

gravitygirl said:

It's not a case of not allowing other people have their choice - I totally support maternity/paternity/parental lave etc., but I do find it unfair that when it comes to staying late/extra projects/extra travel etc., it is always landed on those without children because those with children play the "family commitments" card - there should be equality of workloads are fairness when it comes to going the extra mile, not just that everything gets landed on those without children! I think that's what can sometimes frustrate people.

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Exactly! My main point proved. . . no more questions Your Honour.

gravitygirl said:

It's not a case of not allowing other people have their choice - I totally support maternity/paternity/parental lave etc., but I do find it unfair that when it comes to staying late/extra projects/extra travel etc., it is always landed on those without children because those with children play the "family commitments" card - there should be equality of workloads are fairness when it comes to going the extra mile, not just that everything gets landed on those without children! I think that's what can sometimes frustrate people.

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It falls on those without children first and then fathers before mothers. If one person is willing to stay later, work harder and make their job/career their main priority then it is only fair that they should have better career progression and get the promotion/pay increase. The idea that someone, man or woman, should be able to take more time off, work more flexible hours and generally make their work life fit in around their personal life without it impacting on their career is nonsense.

Leper said:

Exactly! My main point proved. . . no more questions Your Honour.

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So you think it's fair for people to have unequal workloads and unequal expectations/demands of them but get the same pay and conditions?

I am totally in support of statutory leave, term time and job-sharing options etc. but when it comes to being "in the office" people should be treated the same in terms of workloads if they get paid the same imo.

Hi Gravitygirl,

1. If you work overtime, you deserve to be paid for it either hard cash or bonus.
2. I hope you don't expect somebody who has just had a baby to work the extra hours just because you do. I presume nobody not working the extra hours wants to be paid.
3. If you are not getting compensated for working extra hours, then your union can help. Or of course, you can refuse to work the extra hours if you so wish.