Unpaid tax on State Pension - best course of action?

Skellinton

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Would welcome any advice regarding a potentially serious tax issue, my dad may have! I know I will need to engage professional help so for the moment I'm just trying to get some idea of the extent of the issue.

He's 84 years old, not in the best of health physically or mentally and has never been the most organised person. Anyway, I've been helping him recently with a banking problem and this has uncovered what I think could be a serious tax problem.

He retired at 65 from one of the semi-states with a decent pension - more than enough to bring him into the higher PAYE bracket. When going through his bank statements I noticed that he was getting two other regular payments. When I asked him about these he said that one was the Irish state pension and the other was a small pension from the UK for my mother (who died 16 years ago at age 59 so not sure why he would be getting this) or a UK pension of his own - he can't remember which, he worked in the UK in the 1950s and 60s so it could be that.

He's getting approx €257 per week Irish state pension and £150 per month from the UK - but as far as I can tell he has not been paying any tax on them.

From my understanding, the entire amount should be liable to tax, USC, etc at the highest rate. Ignoring the UK amount, for now, if the Irish state pension is roughly €12k per annum then he should have been paying about €6k a year in tax. Multiply that by 19 years since he retired, add in penalties and interest and you could be talking the guts of €200k.

He's known that this has been looming for some years but has just ignored the problem, told no one, and now it's playing on his mind a lot and he says he wants to deal with it.
He owns his own home (worth about €350k) and has savings of about €70k. He has three children and his will, I am the executor, divides the estate equally between the three of us.

I've told him he has two choices - the easy one is to ignore the problem and let the estate deal with it when he's gone. Obviously, all that does is create a bigger issue down the line.

The right choice, the hard one, would be to deal with it now - engage a tax accountant, get in touch with Revenue to stop the clock so to speak and then to negotiate a payment strategy. He's terrified they would insist on full payment rather than instalments or that they would force him to sell the house.

I know he would like to do the right thing but I also know that if he's looking at a tax bill of 10's of thousands then he will kick it down the road.

Any advice would be really appreciated.
 
The right choice, the hard one, would be to deal with it now - engage a tax accountant, get in touch with Revenue to stop the clock so to speak and then to negotiate a payment strategy. He's terrified they would insist on full payment rather than instalments or that they would force him to sell the house.

I know he would like to do the right thing but I also know that if he's looking at a tax bill of 10's of thousands then he will kick it down the road.

Do this. Now. If, as you say, he has savings, it should all be solvable. It's highly unlikely that they would ever force him or anyone else to sell their house for something like this.

And don't contact Revenue before you get proper advice. Then leave it to the expert you hire. No point in making a potentially bad situation worse.
 
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Skel

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Brendan
 
Hello,

Ok so have you looked at the payslip from the semi state ? Perhaps ( as it has been for other people) revenue have amended his tax credits and rate band to take account of the Irish pension?? Have a look to see??

I certainly wouldn’t contact revenue at this stage..

If there is tax due , get a tax advisor on the case to do a unprompted voluntary disclosure.. I would not be going back 19 years!!! Maybe 4...

Anyway check the payslip first ...
 
Perhaps ( as it has been for other people) revenue have amended his tax credits and rate band to take account of the Irish pension?? Have a look to see??

Very good point. Revenue addressed this issue a number of years back by targeting old age pension recipients with income from other sources. If your dad's case didn't pop up in that particular trawl, there is at least a sporting chance that his tax position is in order.
 
Most likely the state pension is being taken into account through his tax credits on his occupational pension for the last few years at least. You can check this on his current tax credit certificate to make sure of this.

The foreign pension is likely to be an issue though. There's no point contacting Revenue until you're in a position to make a voluntary disclosure but I'd talk to an expert ASAP though to get that started, interest racks up quickly enough.

He won't be forced to sell the house now but if there's no other way of paying the money but Revenue could get a judgement mortgage on the house.
 
Thank you to all who replied and your advice.

I can't find his tax credit certificate but I have his July payslip. His Period Tax Credit is €117.50 (cumulative 822.50). My own credit for July was €291.67 so I am hoping that the €174 difference indicates that perhaps the state pension has been taken into account?

We will have to address the UK pension issue but it would certainly be a weight off his mind if the state pension was compliant.
 
That is positive...

You/he could ask Revenue for a copy of his tax credits and standard rate cut off point cert. well he will have to be there to be on call. Don’t mention anything else on call..

To my mind he should have at least:


Paye 1650
Single 1650 ( could be higher if widowed)
Age credit 245

Total 3,545
Actual 822

Difference =2,723

Multiple by 5 = 13,615

I make that his credits are taking account of 13,615 of other income... obviously the above is speculation...
 
Do the man need all this stress at this age of his life . If it was me I think he has paid enough and leave him be.
 
Anyway, I've been helping him recently with a banking problem and this has uncovered what I think could be a serious tax problem.
Have you raised a problem for him that did not exist for him before this? Are you concerned that in your role as executor you might be liable for something?

I would suggest that you leave things be. He is 84 years old and not in the best of health. If the Revenue query things after he has died then it can be dealt with then.
 
But OP has written that it is playing on his Dad's mind and he has known about it, so if that is the case it is better sorted now and the father can be reassured that he is not going to lose his home or anything especially when it seems the IRish pension has been taken into account.
 
I would suggest that you leave things be. He is 84 years old and not in the best of health. If the Revenue query things after he has died then it can be dealt with then.

If "dealt with" means leaving the estate open to a large tax, interest and penalties hit on grounds that will by that stage be even more difficult than now to challenge in any reasonable manner, I respectfully caution against that.
 
That is positive...

You/he could ask Revenue for a copy of his tax credits and standard rate cut off point cert. well he will have to be there to be on call. Don’t mention anything else on call..

To my mind he should have at least:


Paye 1650
Single 1650 ( could be higher if widowed)
Age credit 245

Total 3,545
Actual 822

Difference =2,723

Multiple by 5 = 13,615

I make that his credits are taking account of 13,615 of other income... obviously the above is speculation...
The 822 seems to be the cumulative credit to date (i.e. 117.50 x 7 months), so annual credit of 1410 giving an amount of income of 10,675 taken into account.
 
If "dealt with" means leaving the estate open to a large tax, interest and penalties hit on grounds that will by that stage be even more difficult than now to challenge in any reasonable manner, I respectfully caution against that.

No penalties/publication apply to an estate.

But as you say, interest will continue to accrue, so it's unlikely to work out at a lower cost...
 
No penalties/publication apply to an estate.
Excellent point, which means that if Revenue discover a tax arrears issue during his lifetime, they may well press for its resolution while he's still living. All the more reason to address it now, and at the very least get some clarity on what hopefully are unjustified fears.
 
Thank you to all who replied and for all the advice.

I finally managed to get him to see an accountant and it seems that his Irish state pension is taken into account in his allowances.

Also, he hasn't been claiming his (considerable) medical expenses so setting these against the liability for his UK pension the accountant thinks he shouldn't be left with too much liability.

In the process now of gathering all the information with a view to making a return in the near future.
 
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