Public Transport company cancels hundreds of journeys.

TheBigShort

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A public transport company has cancelled hundreds of scheduled journeys bought and paid for by the hard-pressed taxpayer and consumer.
Inconveniencing thousands of passengers due to a complete mismanagement of schedules and staffing, staff across Europe have taken a stand against a diluting of their terms and conditions of employment. Senior management have confirmed no heads will roll after this shambles and the blame rests with the CEO who won't be resigning.
Typical public sector.
Meanwhile in the private sector....
 
The oldest argument rolls forward, Apart from your sarcasm what point are you trying to make,
 
I think it's a very valid post.

If this were Dublin Bus cancelling a whole pile of bus routes because it had messed up on the annual leave, I, for one, would certainly be calling for its replacement by private sector bus companies.

Brendan
 
The oldest argument rolls forward, Apart from your sarcasm what point are you trying to make,

I think Brendan answers your question quite well.

If this were Dublin Bus cancelling a whole pile of bus routes because it had messed up on the annual leave, I, for one, would certainly be calling for its replacement by private sector bus companies.

The second point is that it appears that pilots across Europe are acting in unison, in a co-ordinated united front against a diluting of their terms and conditions of work.
This is like trade unionism?
 
The second point is that it appears that pilots across Europe are acting in unison, in a co-ordinated united front against a diluting of their terms and conditions of work.

No - they are acting as a monopoly trying to get more money.

Imagine the outcry if all the pubs in Dublin acted in unison in a co-ordinated untied front to increase their prices!

Brendan
 
I absolutely accept he point being made here by the OP.

However the further point he misses is that the markets have already punished Ryanair, the total value of the company has fallen by 3.3 billion Euro in a month. From just over 29 billion to 25.6 billion. https://ycharts.com/companies/RYAAY/market_cap

While the people paying for the cancelled journeys are no doubt for the most part taxpayers, they chose to pay for those journeys, paying tax is a legal requirement. In future those taxpayers can choose not to travel with Ryanair, they cannot choose not to pay tax.

Unlike a monopoly business, travellers can decide that they do not wish to travel with such an unreliable company and choose other airlines. Again his will punish Ryanair.

It is Ryanair shareholders who suffer this market punishment, they have the power to dismiss Ryanair management. Where Public servants mess up their customers have no such power to dismiss them. Voters have the much less power to not reelect the political masters of public servants, at the next election, when every other aspect of governing the country has to be considered as well.
 
In the absence of structured and transparent mechanism for staff to lay claim to, what they perceive, fair pay for fair work, this is the outcome.

OK, so would you be ok with all the airlines getting together and agreeing a maximum salary for what they determine to be fair pay for fair work?

Brendan
 
OK, so would you be ok with all the airlines getting together and agreeing a maximum salary for what they determine to be fair pay for fair work?

Brendan
No. Let the market decide, yet again we are looking at putting in structures that lead to inefficiencies.
 
It's not unlike price fixing in what they're trying to do, but not by choice a certain O Leary guy has given them a window of opportunity to (maybe) screw him and it's good enough for him. I do hope they get better pay and conditions, but not at my expense or discomfort.
 
No. Let the market decide, yet again we are looking at putting in structures that lead to inefficiencies.

Hi Horseman

I am not putting in any structures. I am letting people of their own free will in the market to club together to keep salaries down. Is that not what should happen in a free market?

Of course, each airline would be free to stay outside the cartel and set their own prices.

Brendan
 
It is Ryanair shareholders who suffer this market punishment, they have the power to dismiss Ryanair management. Where Public servants mess up their customers have no such power to dismiss them. Voters have the much less power to not reelect the political masters of public servants, at the next election, when every other aspect of governing the country has to be considered as well.

I don't disagree in general with your points but I suppose the point I am trying to make, which is my bad for not making it clear, is that there is a tendency to admonish the public sector and all its apparent failings while pointing to the lack of accountability. This is followed with the somewhat exaggerated claims that if such failings occurred in the private sector then the axe would fall on those responsible, no questions asked. This is proffered as an effective way to foster maximum productivity and efficiency, hence its good value for consumers.
The reality is far from this. When it comes to accountability in the private sector, most managers will automatically will adopt a strategy of self-preservation pointing to system failures rather than personal accountability similar to public sector workers.
This is not a criticism, this is just an acknowledgement of the reality of working in large organizations. That when the worst hits the fan, both public and private sector worker's will react in similar vein.
In this case, the CEO is accepting responsibility, not for the cock-up in scheduling, as he is unlikely to be directly involved, but for the subsequent fall in share prices. And as you have pointed out, the shareholders can get rid of the management if need be.
Ditto public sector, when the worst hits the fan the buck will stop at the Minister or Commissioner or whoever. But the worker's in the public service are then lambasted for the 'protective culture' etc, when in reality, private sector worker's, working in large organizations, adopt the same methods of self-preservation.
 
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A public transport company has cancelled hundreds of scheduled journeys bought and paid for by the hard-pressed taxpayer and consumer.
Inconveniencing thousands of passengers due to a complete mismanagement of schedules and staffing, staff across Europe have taken a stand against a diluting of their terms and conditions of employment. Senior management have confirmed no heads will roll after this shambles and the blame rests with the CEO who won't be resigning.
Typical public sector.
Meanwhile in the private sector....

Firstly, the Ryanair fiasco must have made your whole week. I'd say you are weak at the knees with excitement.

Of course, it's a momumental screw-up. Whilst nobody seems to have been sacked, those with the greatest to lose financially, the shareholders, have lost quite a bit with the man at the top losing most.

However, all is not lost:

The passengers can get compensation. Not so when the public sector cancels services.
The passengers can fly with someone else. Not so when the public sector cancels services.
The taxpayer has not had to foot the bill. Not so when the public sector cancels services.
 
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Firstly, the Ryanair fiasco must have made you whole week. I'd say you are weak at the knees with excitement.

Why? Ryanair is a great company, employees thousands of people and I was once, briefly, a shareholder.
Why on earth would you post such nonsense?
 
The passengers can get compensation. Not so when the public sector cancels services.
The passengers can fly with someone else. Not so when the public sector cancels services.
The taxpayer has not had to foot the bill. Not so when the public sector cancels services.

I presume that the international rules or EU rules apply to all airlines whether privately or publicly owned?

The owners of a company get the profits and foot the bills for the errors. I don't think it makes any difference whether it's privately owned or publicly owned?

Brendan
 
A public transport company has cancelled hundreds of scheduled journeys bought and paid for by the hard-pressed taxpayer and consumer.
Inconveniencing thousands of passengers due to a complete mismanagement of schedules and staffing, staff across Europe have taken a stand against a diluting of their terms and conditions of employment. Senior management have confirmed no heads will roll after this shambles and the blame rests with the CEO who won't be resigning.
Typical public sector.
Meanwhile in the private sector....
Happened this week in Navan as Bus Eireann made a complete hames of their restructuring of the disastrous 109 Cavan-Dublin bus service - a service that takes more than double the time of the same journey by car. See Peadar Toibin's twitter page.

Except the BE staff didn't take a stand as they don't care a fiddlers about their passengers. So nearly nobody outside those directly affected even knows about it.

Typical public sector.

Meanwhile in the private sector.... Ryanair get hammered for making a similar mistake.
 
The owners of a company get the profits and foot the bills for the errors. I don't think it makes any difference whether it's privately owned or publicly owned?

The owners in the private sector have made voluntary investments in the business and accept that they may make or lose money. The owners in the public sector are you, me and everyone else who have no say and continually foots the bill to lose making monopolies.
 
Happened this week in Navan as Bus Eireann made a complete hames of their restructuring of the disastrous 109 Cavan-Dublin bus service - a service that takes more than double the time of the same journey by car. See Peadar Toibin's twitter page.

Is that because the driver drives the bus slowly? Should he drive it as if he were driving a car? Do car drivers have to stop to drop off and take on passengers along the route? Could that have something to do with it?

Except the BE staff didn't take a stand as they don't care a fiddlers about their passengers. So nearly nobody outside those directly affected even knows about it.

So now if public sector workers don't take a stand they are the bad guys too? A bit of damned if you do damned if you don't?

Typical public sector.

Exactly the point I'm making, as pointed out by Brendan earlier also.
There is a different attitude to public/private sector worker's when things go wrong.
My point is that broadly speaking, there is little difference between either save, one works to maximize profit for their owner, the other works to provide a service.
In both instances, inefficiencies, inadequacies, lack of responsibility, can come to the fore in both sectors.
The reaction to these inefficiencies differ quite some bit, depending on which sector it emerges from. Even though, at the end of the day, there is often little difference between either.
 
There is a different attitude to public/private sector worker's when things go wrong.

Of course there is. When things go wrong in a private company that is their problem. Maybe they fix it maybe they don't, who cares.

When things go wrong in the public sector, at best my taxes are used to fix it, or at worse to cover it up. And I have so little control over that as to be no control.
 
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