How to decide whether to buy house in Dublin or build in Tipperary

I am currently looking at the pros and cons of buying a house in Dublin or building on some land I own in Tipperary and commuting to Dublin by train. I have 350,000 EURO cash available. My options are as follows:

1) Buy a 123m2 4 bed house in Dublin for 550k. I will borrow 200k over 23 years. Repayments arre approx 1,100 euro per month. The house does not need any work.

2) Build a 200m2 house in Tipperary, which is in a rural area but 5 miles from Tipperary town and 7 miles from Limerick junction train station, which 10 trains run daily to Dublin. Total build cost will be approx 250k. I will borrow 100k over 23 years. Repayments are approx 550 euro per month.

We have recently returned to Ireland and my job will be in Dublin for now. I work as a Quantity Surveyor. My wife is currently a homemaker and our 3 kids go to the local school in Tipperary for now. However, the intention is for my wife to return to work as she has dual qualifications in Science and HR and 16 years experience.

Obviously if we move to Dublin there are better employment opportunities and less commuting times. However, school spaces are difficult to find as are booking kids into after school activities, sports clubs etc etc. And of course I imagine we will have a better social life in Dublin.

If we build in Tipperary we will still have 200k left over in our cash pile as it is cheaper to build. We will not have an issue with school spaces, sports clubs, extra curricular activities for kids etc as spaces are plentiful. However, I will have to commute to Dublin and probably stay in Dublin 2 nights a week or look for a job in Munster to reduce commuting times. My wife will also have the same issues when it comes to her looking for work. Also, Tipperary is not Vegas! so our social lives will be more challenging.

I would like to hear other peoples views on this and maybe others have gone through the same process as us? At the end of the day we want to give the kids every opportunity possible while at the same time having a good work life balance ourselves.

For me it has to be tip. I moved from dublin to galway 10 years ago sold up and bought a house twice the size of house in dublin no mortgage and still had money left over, its great to be mortgage free and we live on the theory of spending less, work less, your not too far from Limerick a great city thats under rated in my opinion.

My vote is for Tipp - financially you'll be better off and more importantly, your kids will have a nice country childhood. There'll be plenty of opportunities for them in Tipp.

I do my upmost to avoid commuting.
Here's a question - if someone was paying you the extra hours you were spending travelling to work each week and taking into account the extra cost of travelling, how long would the 200K last? Then try working that out if both of you have to travel, even to Cork. How likely are you to find work within an hour's travel ultimately?

Hi Monte

This is primarily a non-financial decision and one you have to make.

I don't think you should be guided by the fact that you have a site in Tipperary.

You should be looking to eventually live in a place which meets your combined needs. That is where you both can get work and your kids have a good life.

I don't think you should build in Tipperary at this stage.

I think you should probably rent there and see how things work out. You can look for a job locally or in Limerick. If you get that, then maybe start building the house.

Brendan

All, thank you for your comments. I suppose we are a little bit anxious as we are both in our early 40's and we are desperate to get our home underway. Our kids are 10,8,6 so they are equally keen! We have a decent amount of cash at our disposal plus mortgage approval but we want to make sure we make the right decision. However, even with the amount of cash we have available it does sometimes feel difficult to get "bang for your buck" in terms of house purchase or rental. We have worked hard to accumulate this cash over the past 10 years and we were lucky to escape the property bubble.

Both Dublin and Tipperary have their advantages and disadvantages and I suppose this boils down to city vs country living and jobs, commuting, lifestyle etc. As Galwaypat and paddybloggit have said you get more for your buck outside of Dublin but at the same time as rob oyle points out, commuting does come at a price both financially and time lost.

Brendan, I agree that we should be looking at all our needs (work, play, travel) in reaching a decision. Dublin seems to be the obvious answer in the short to medium term as my new job will be there from September onwards. However, we only have our 10 year old son enrolled in a school at the moment as there are no places in that school for our other 2 kids. We will have to look at other schools for them and home school them in the meantime if nothing comes up.

Finding suitable rental accommodation is an issue in both scenarios in terms of quality and cost.

It would be good to hear other peoples views on this.

Monte2014 said:

... or building on some land I own in Tipperary

Click to expand...

Have you looked into the feasibility of obtaining planning permission on this land? Are there Local Needs provisions in place?

Yes Leo. We have planning in place. I also own some agricultural land but it is rented to a local farmer.

Obviously this is a personal lifestyle choice rather than a financial decision, but I am mystified by the idea that you would have a better social life in Dublin.

Also remember it will take more than 50% of the built cost to furnish, decorate, finish and complete ground works, gardens, etc. However, my choice would be rural as there is a more community based culture.

A little off topic, but why are you taking a mortgage to build if you've enough cash? One of the attractions of something like this to me would be living mortgage free.

how about buying a house in limerick city ? , you can still buy a really good family home in limerick for around the 300 k mark , you could get a dream home for 400 k in limerick

Buy a house where you need to be. Finding a job for yourself in munster may be difficult. Depending on the type of work even if you do,it can involve a lot of travel. Meanwhile your wife will be in the middle of nowhere with 3 kids on her own. And little chance of her getting back to work when she wants to.
Its doable but only if ye have a burning desire to. Along with your commute I fail to see huge quality of life. A house in Dublin will always sell if you decide you hate it. A one off build in the country will not be as easy.within a few years the house will be empty as the kids head off to college. Commuting is one thing but I just never see the point of part time parenting unless people have no other options.

Speaking as someone who commutes in every day from the sticks to Dublin, to me it is a no-brainer. Has to be Tipp.

Firstly, you'll get a much better house in Tipp then you will in Dublin for your money
You'll have a much better social life in Tipp then you will in Dublin because you will get to know people a lot easier. Big cities are very anonymous.


Work in Dublin, build in Tipp and make your intention to stay in Dublin short term, you'll find work in Munster eventually.

My tuppence worth
If you work in Dublin then live in Dublin. You will probably will be living a modest house but you, your wife and family will be together. She may go back to work quicker perhaps starting with part-time.

Living in Tipp. the commute is a killer. You may manage it for a few years but it will wear you down. Your wife is the only one ever at the school gates who gets to know the other parents. No dad at the matches, swimming pool, music lessons or whatever hobbies they take on.

You can't afford to miss those precious years with your children by being the absent/weekend dad

All, thank you so much for your replies. Some interesting comments on commuting. I go over and back regularly to London with work and it amazes me how many people commute 1-2 hours each way every day to work in the city! Of course the public transport infrastructure is better in and around London.

Here is another related question. Notwithstanding Brendan's advice to rent for a period and without wishing to break the rules regrading house prices, are we crazy putting a large proportion of our savings (€350k) into a house valued at €550k and getting a mortgage for the rest?

Some great points noted.
As mentioned above, your ultimate question has to be - Where would you like to be long term?

If kids are moving schools now, will they potentially have to move again in another few years if they start in Dublin now and then you subsequently move to Tipp?

The availability of school places in addition to finding a property - rental or otherwise in Dublin is not cheap - You are obviously going to get a much bigger and nicer house in Tipp and have a minimal mortgage.

Do you have family support in Tipp? Don't underestimate the value of having this around you.

You mentioned that you recently moved home - Is it safe to assume that this was to be closer to family? Will you be spending your weekends packing the car to head down the country with the kids in tow to see family? As they get older and start more activities, this will get tiresome to them and for you to always be packing and unpacking the car at weekends.

If you all move to Dublin, will you always think 'What if we had moved to Tipp' - Would you realistically consider moving the kids out of school again in another few years separating them from their friends as they are getting older?

The school in Dublin that you have a place for one child in - Are there other schools nearby that you may get the other two into? Your wife will have two school drop offs and two locations for pickups. Would they all prefer to be together in the one school? Realistically, will she be able to return to work and if so, you need to figure in the childcare costs. Realise that it may just be for after school and possibly some time in the morning before school starts, but this does not come cheap compared to down the country.

If me - I would rent in Tipp - get them settled into school. Start your job and think of it as a one year scenario regarding commuting. (Would you have the option to work remotely 1/2 days per week?)
It is always easier to get a job when you have a job. You will know the lie of the land after a few months regarding working back in Ireland and if not sustainable as a long term option, can look for something in Munster with your local experience under your belt.

With your mortgage in Tipp pretty much (or completely) paid, neither of you will need jobs paying large salaries as outgoings will be much less. Undoubtedly living down the country is cheaper than living in Dublin. Depending on where you are living/working in the capital - commute times can be long in any case. Kids can feel rooted in the local community rather than thinking of it as a short term thing.
Use the year to apply for planning and get a feel for the place. If you give it a shot and discover that its not for you, you will have more time on your hands to plan and aim to move all of the family to Dublin next summer, getting their names down for schools well in advance of same.

Its not an easy decision, the very best of luck.

All, just to give you an update on my situation. The job I was offered in Dublin fell through. I was since offered a job in Munster, which I started 2 weeks ago. Ironically I am earning more now than I would have earned in Dublin (€40k more!). However, even though the company is a large family owned EPC contractor with work worldwide, they are still managed by the family which brings it own challenges. Also, there is a toxic culture in the organisation and I will have to travel overseas regularly and work many late nights.

Just 2 days ago I was offered a role with a newly set up housing property developer in Dublin. It currently has 20 staff and I will be joining as no.3 in the organisation. Even though it is a very senior role it pays less than the Munster role. However, I really like the owners attitude and we clicked straight away.

So here is my dilemma. Which role should I continue with? The Munster role pays more money, is established over 40 years but it is still tightly run by the family members and if the role does not work out I will not have many other opportunities in the region. The Dublin role pays less but I am starting in what is effectively a start up, has funding in place for the next 5 years but of course it carrys it own risks if housing goes the same way as 2008 onwards but as it is Dublin I should pick up other work. Of course, Dublin has its own financial challenges.

As Brendan said we need to take into account our combined needs regarding both locations but I only wish I was getting the six figure salary in Dublin with the company I like and Dublin was not so expensive and lack of affordable housing.

Personally I'd take the Dublin job. The other one sounds like it will bring its own stresses and strains. No money is worth it. Over time given your performance you can work on getting an increase with them.

Having worked for a family owned and run company in the oil and gas sector in Tipp, I would say take the Dublin job. There will be a lot expected from you in terms of your time and travel so you will be away as much as you might be being based in Dublin.

I wouldn't build in Tipp quite yet - make sure that you really can make a happy life for yourselves - do you still have family around you and are old friendships starting to be rekindled or new ones formed. As a blow in to a rural area that I like, I am happy that we have built but it would be a lonely life without the family and friends around. Make sure that it is somewhere that you would chose to live even if you didn't have the (very saleable) land - you could consider moving somewhere that appeals to you more and is less rural, like a coastal town.