Fair Deal Scheme - cash contribution?

jamesbr

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Hope someone can offer some explanation why this would be these case.

My father went into a nursing home recently, my mother is dead. He transferred the house into my name 10 years ago. My brother organised the Fair Deal scheme without talking to me about it and we are not on speaking terms.

The home costs approximately 1,200 per week and his contribution has been assessed as 850 per week, he simply doesn't have this income, his income would be about 500 per week in total.

My brother is now hassling me to pay some of this 850 a week as the nursing home is sending bills, there are arrears of nearly 10,000 at the moment.

From reading about the fair deal scheme I just can't understand how this can be the case, I though the HSE paid any shortfall and relatives are not expected to pay?
 
your brother would have needed to provide your fathers income and supporting documents to the Fair Deal office for financial assessment. They confirm this in writing and your brother had the optional to appeal the decision determining his contribution. Did your brother apply for the loan (where HSE take % charge of property or land)?
 
thank you for the reply, he won't tell me what the situation is and seems very vague and to not understand it fully. I'm absolutely sure that my father would not have that sort of income to be assessed at 850 per week (80% of income).

Is it possible that he decide not to apply for a loan? My father does own a property in England which is not rented, worth maybe 300,000.

Father has dementia by the way and doesn't know where he is even.
 
Without knowing what your brother did submit on the paperwork I suggest you contact the fair deal officeand go and talk to them. They will have a trace on the whole application and should be able to initiate an appeal for you as it sounds like the wrong info was submitted
 
If his contribution is 850 but his total income is 500 (80% of which is 400) then the extra 450 must be due to his assets i.e the property in the UK and any other assets he may have.

The HSE can take up to 7.5% of the value of an asset per year. In the case of the asset that is the person's home, this 7.5% payment can be deferred until after death and the most they can take is 22.5% (capped at 3 years)

It sounds as though the house he transferred to you 10 years ago is his "home" and the UK property is an NPPR so no loan and no cap.

So your father might be expected to sell the property but I'm not sure how this works if he is not of sound mind to do so and enduring power of attorney has not been taken out.
 
There was something on prime time or the news recently where people were complaining because the nursing homes were charging for extras - these extras were things like mass, hairdressers, renting mattresses, hosting bingo. So I would ask for a copy of the invoice as you will probably see that the charge is 80% of your father's income plus whatever services he is also using.
 
The HSE numbers seem about right to me

Assets worth 312,000 => charged at 7.5% = 23,400/yr = 450/wk

400 (income part) + 450 (asset part) + 350 (HSE part) = 1200/wk

It could be worth talking to an inheritance solicitor/tax planner as well as the HSE. Irish and UK inheritance tax laws are both complex, and even more so when they interact. It looks like the nursing home is accumulating a charge against your father's future estate, possibly adding late fees and interest. A future beneficiary of the estate will want to minimize the debts and liabilities of the estate.

I don't think anyone other than your father (and his future estate) has a legal obligation to pay the bills - but what happens if the bills are unpaid - can a nursing home kick someone out - if so where do they kick them out to?

Apart from this specific case, there's a broader issue here of how current nursing home charges are paid out of illiquid assets (e.g. a non-PPR house or fixed long-term deposit account). Has anyone any experience with this?
 
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