People who don't realise how good they have it: ATC Vs DAA dispute.

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

I said, in an earlier post, that other jobs don't involve the death of dozens of people if your concentration slips. You cited pilots and I said they were also well paid and then you came back and said only those carrying passengers. Which bears out my point, I would have thought.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Latrade said:
Instead they've muddied the waters by releasing the pay and conditions. All I can ask is that all reasonable people look past this. I agree that's good pay, I agree that's great conditions of employment. But that's irrelevant at this time.
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Where I work, and this seems to be echoed all over, it is spelled out very clearly that when you move into the realms of the better paid the fortunes of your employer become your business i.e. you have to adopt a very flexible attitude.

The key point is pay. I really don't believe that anyone earning more than double the average industrial wage should be unionised or in any way uncooperative.

If you are a manager or at a similar pay level most people would agree that the emphasis has shifted from simply doing your job for a fair wage to taking on more responsibility in terms of the ultimate requirements of your employer.

It saddened me to see a while back to see that unions had negotiated guaranteed bonuses for senior managers in the public service. If you are really worth that much then you don't need union protection. The unions should really focus their energies on the lower pay end of the scale where people genuinely need to be protected from unfair work practices and remuneration.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

umop3p!sdn said:
Do you have the luxury of fail-safes?


It's not difficult to get paid less than these air traffic controllers.
Do you get any other money in addition to your basic pay? - Have you also missed the point that these people are now holding the country to ransom for even more money?


You can't do this job, so no one else on this thread can either? sounds pretty egotistical to me.
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Of course I have fail safes but no system is perfect. I still make decisions.

Yes I do get more money in addition to my basic pay in the form of a performance related bonus. I haven't missed that point. If you read back, I am one of the first ones to give out about their action. I just don't belittle their jobs.

Statistically, the odds of one of the say 20-25 people who have posted on this thread having the required skills to operate as a ATC are large. For a start, most people (myself included) would not have the spacial awareness abilities needed to do the job never mind the other personality traits.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

DerKaiser said:
Where I work, and this seems to be echoed all over, it is spelled out very clearly that when you move into the realms of the better paid the fortunes of your employer become your business i.e. you have to adopt a very flexible attitude.

The key point is pay. I really don't believe that anyone earning more than double the average industrial wage should be unionised or in any way uncooperative.
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Couldn't agree more. In a managerial capacity, when you take the "white shirt" you take the responsibility. I'm not entirely sure it's quite so universally accepted across the private sector though. Plenty of managers I've dealt/deal with do anything but accept their responsibilities.

Again, the pay before christmas for senior managers has nothing to do with this issue.

Whether or I think the pay of ACC is excessive (I do), they've disagreed with the current offer (which we haven't had full detail of only the one aspect of the pensions really) and have taken the correct route of the LRC. They haven't immediately walked out, they've engaged in the appropriate and proper resolution process. Until that ends, I can't judge them.

Like Sunny I take exception to the notion that they have an easy job. And I take exception to the media's reporting and obvious bias in this case. The publishing of their T&Cs was an underhand deliberate move to turn opinion against the employees.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Latrade said:
Like Sunny I take exception to the notion that they have an easy job. And I take exception to the media's reporting and obvious bias in this case. The publishing of their T&Cs was an underhand deliberate move to turn opinion against the employees.
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Leaking T&Cs is definitely not the way to handle these things. Neither side is coming out of this looking good.

Most people's predominant feeling is that we should try just get back to normality if at all possible because these strikes, hot on the heels of weather related disruption, are a kick in the teeth for the average Joe trying to go about their business as best they can in spite of the economic situation
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

I just don't belittle their jobs.

Statistically, the odds of one of the say 20-25 people who have posted on this thread having the required skills to operate as a ATC are large. For a start, most people (myself included) would not have the spacial awareness abilities needed to do the job never mind the other personality traits.
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There are plenty of people who could do their jobs, and aren't over paid or holding the country to ransom. There are the obvious jobs like airline pilots, surgeons etc, but also the not so obvious ones like software developers that write mission critical software. The ATC do have failsafes, and guess who writes these systems? Even your job, who makes sure that the trades go through and aren't multiplied by a factor of ten every second Friday in June?

Thousands of people across the globe have jobs they need to concentrate on or lives will be lost. Everyone from Scaffolders to Therac 25 software developers.

Considering the profile of people who may contribute to this thread, there is a very high chance at least one would be capable of doing this job.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

umop3p!sdn said:
Considering the profile of people who may contribute to this thread, there is a very high chance at least one would be capable of doing this job.
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What profile? It's no different to randomly picking 25 people off the street. What do you think the odds are of finding one person capable of being an ATC are?

I am not saying they are not overpaid. I am sure they are like most people in this Country. I am only saying that people seem to be suggesting that they are overpaid because anyone can do the job and thats it not that difficult. Thats simply not true.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Latrade said:
But then what would we have to talk about on here?
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yeah, I didn't really apportion blame to anyone for the cold weather so I guess they've given me the opportunity to gripe for the first time in a while!
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

There is something wrong when a small group of people can shut down the Irish airspace like this. Inconvenience 20,000 passengers ,damage business interests
Key infrastructure employees like this shouldnt be allowed to strike ,same goes for ESB. They are able to hold the country to ransom and have disproportionate bargaining power
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

No public or civil servant should be allowed to strike.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

May I remind everyone that IAA employees are not public servants. The IAA is a semi-state body. Public servants are subject to the Pension levy and the recent pay cut. Employees of semi-state bodies are not.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

What profile? It's no different to randomly picking 25 people off the street. What do you think the odds are of finding one person capable of being an ATC are?
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That's an incorrect assumption.

Posters on this thread is far from a random sample of the population. They are people who are computer literate enough to contribute to this thread, care enough about their opinion to contribute. There might also be a bias towards employed people.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

umop3p!sdn said:
That's an incorrect assumption.

Posters on this thread is far from a random sample of the population. They are people who are computer literate enough to contribute to this thread, care enough about their opinion to contribute. There might also be a bias towards employed people.
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My Granny moans alot and can e-mail. Doesn't mean I want her landing my plane.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Well i can tell you one thing I wouldnt like umop3p!sdn and Niallers looking after air control if i was on a plane over Ireland. Talk about taking a simplistic view!!

Good people of AAM - i reckon these guys are WUMs. If not then god help them........
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Well i can tell you one thing I wouldnt like umop3p!sdn and Niallers looking after air control if i was on a plane over Ireland. Talk about taking a simplistic view!!

Good people of AAM - i reckon these guys are WUMs. If not then god help them.
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If people like me were in charge of air traffic control, you'd be able to be in a plane over Ireland, and not waiting in the departure lounge.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

liaconn said:
Why not?
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People in the Public sector should understand that in return for stable life long employment that certain things are expected of them apart from doing the job in which they're paid to do and that is continuity of service. Striking in the public sector should lead to losing your Job in my opinion. A country cannot be held to ranson by a greedy group of people.


As Ronald Reagan said in 1981

"We cannot compare labor-management relations in the private sector with government. Government cannot close down the assembly line. It has to provide without interruption the protective services which are government's reason for being"
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

WarrenBuffet said:
Well i can tell you one thing I wouldnt like umop3p!sdn and Niallers looking after air control if i was on a plane over Ireland. Talk about taking a simplistic view!!

Good people of AAM - i reckon these guys are WUMs. If not then god help them........
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There is no need to take any other view than a simplistic one. 99% of industrial action can be brought back to one thing. Money. These people are just being greedy.
 
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