Romanian beggars

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Sunster

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Just wondering. Working in town I see many Romanian women begging with their children. Always seems to be the same group of them scattered about town. Does anyone know if these women are actually homeless?
 
Re: Roma* beggars

I strongly believe anyone who uses a child for begging purposes is corrupting a minor, perpetuating the culture of begging and should be locked up.
Its' a fairly common sight to see children (who should be in school) sitting begging at ATM machines (e.g AIB) while their relatives are rattling collection tins aggressively in the faces of tourists on the other end of Grafton Street.
I'm generally in favor of the benefits of multiculturism and immigration (which is another issue entirely) and it bothers me to see tourists who are our guests hassled when they visit to see our city and should be enjoying themselves. I dont think anyone should be allowed into the country if their only activity is begging and they dont integrate with our culture and civilised society.
 
Yesterday, in Sligo town, two young men approached my car while I was in a traffic queue.

They were washing windscreens, and then asking for money.

I suppose it's better than begging, as they do provide a service.
 
AFAIK many of the ones around Dublin are not homeless. About 20 of them used to live in a Lucan estate in houses provided by the health board. Not sure if they still do, my friend moved from the estate.

I NEVER EVER give them money, you perpetuate a bad cycle.
 
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Before we start tarring a nation let us know we are talking about! Lets remember our own travelling community and the dreadful decision in silgo .Also do those Irish who went before us to other countries represent the more “sophicated and discerning” that reside in this lovely Island today!
 
I have lived in Sligo eight years and the "travelling community" don't seem to have added much to the society/town.

Perhaps I'm wrong. To prove me wrong, I'd like to see their P60s to show me their contributions to the State's tax revenues.

Alas, I fear no joy on that account.
 
Also, there now are "Roma" or "Romanian" people in Sligo, not begging, but requesting funds via the Big Issue.

Hmmmm.

Begging in disguise??

Maybe, maybe not.

I'd love to see a traveller's P60!!
 
Amygdala said:
Before we start tarring a nation let us know we are talking about!
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With regard to begging on the streets in Ireland I believe the previous posters do know the subject they are writing about.
Most people realise that Roma gypsies do not represent the whole of Romania. I know quite a few 'sophisticated and discerning' Romanians who are very well educated, who do not beg for a living and who remind me that a Romanian invented the jet engine.



Amygdala said:

Lets remember our own travelling community and the dreadful decision in silgo
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What has happened in Sligo which would make aggressive begging or the grooming of children into a culture of begging any less wrong ? The law should apply to everyone equally. I believe our social problems should be reduced not increased. And the tool to do this is government policy.
You mention Sligo as though there is a hidden justification within the 'Sligo story' for Roma or other ethnic begging and I do not understand that.


Amygdala said:

Also do those Irish who went before us to other countries represent the more “sophicated and discerning” that reside in this lovely Island today!
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I've never claimed to be sophisticated or discerning. However you'll find many Irish who emigrated were quite sophisticated intellectually for example James Joyce.
However my idea of a 'sophisticated' society is a society in which this begging problem does not happen. And I think those in charge should be 'discerning' enough to put a stop to the abuse and grooming into forced begging labour of children who should be in school no matter which ethnicity or origins they are from.

The thread should not be diverted into one of racism. Thankfully immigration appears to be successful from my point of view and the number of people entering the country with no intention to integrate or contribute to our society is very small and hence there is very little racism in Irish society.
However I have also observed from other countries experiences that a small number of people who do not contribute could possibly have a disproportionate effect on sentiment towards immigration .
You mention the fact of Irish historical emigration as though there is a hidden justification within the 'Irish historical emigration' story for Roma or other ethnic begging and I do not understand that.
 
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shesells said:
About 20 of them used to live in a Lucan estate in houses provided by the health board. Not sure if they still do, my friend moved from the estate.
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Did your friend assume this? Or did she know for a fact, if so how did she know?
 
brodiebabe said:
Did your friend assume this? Or did she know for a fact, if so how did she know?
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...exactly

There is an unbelievable amount of chinese whispering, gossip and downright lies about this sort of thing - and of course it's not the issue anyway. Thousands of people of all nationalities, mostly Irish, 'work the system' if that's what is being suggested.

The issue is one of a society that allows begging - full stop. Whether that's a failure to address a subculture that justifies it, a failure to legislate, or a failure to act appropriately at street level - it's a failure of the state.
 
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Re: Roma* beggars

brodiebabe said:
Did your friend assume this? Or did she know for a fact, if so how did she know?
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She appears to know because she was their neighbour. Knowing any more would require further investigation.

But the issue is more than begging (gangs specifically formed to beg) or someones right to have their own ethnic identity. This is also about the tragic abuse of children.

The continual sight of children who should be in school being sent to beg on the streets while their relatives are around the corner counting the loot is wrong to me on so many levels. I have witnessed the kids being given a clip around the ear for not handing over enough loot.
I've seen a man who appears to be a father/guardian (not by my standards) sitting down 6 kids around the side of Brown Thomas and splitting them up to various patches.

Why does it bother me? Its a part of city centre living which affects me daily as I live under 10 minutes walk from Grafton Street and do my shopping there.
Just try convincing any average Irish person that this isnt wrong.
This is not my idea of ethnic diversity and I dont see any benefits to the country of having them here as long as their culture promotes this. Its wrong, undesirable and it should be stopped.
We cant change the world alone but we can change the part within our borders for the better.
 
As stated, my friend knew because she WAS a neighbour..she actually left the estate because of trouble with them. She would see these same people begging on the streets of the city centre.

Of course the Roma aren't representative of all of Romania, I think the problem is that a lot more people encounter the Roma than know other Romanians so it's a bit like saying all travellers are trouble, tarring everyone with the same brush - it's an opinion formed on your exposure to the community.

My big problem with any beggars are those who use children as props. This is not restricted to the Roma but they are serious culprits.
 
sign said:
The continual sight of children who should be in school being sent to beg on the streets while their relatives are around the corner counting the loot is wrong to me on so many levels. I have witnessed the kids being given a clip around the ear for not handing over enough loot.
I've seen a man who appears to be a father/guardian (not by my standards) sitting down 6 kids around the side of Brown Thomas and splitting them up to various patches.
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Using children as pawns is commonly used throughout Dublin and possibly Ireland by Irish people. Children are picked up from their homes and dropped off at different locations. I'm unsure what percentage the children (or perhaps parents) receive but a friend who was heavily involved with the homeless informed me about it.

TBH I still don't know if its right/wrong to give them something walking by. On the one hand its encouraging the 'organisers' to continue but on the other hand I wouldn't like to think what would happen if they return without any money and like everything in life there are always some genuine people.
 
Sunster said:
Just wondering. Working in town I see many Romanian women begging with their children. Always seems to be the same group of them scattered about town. Does anyone know if these women are actually homeless?
Click to expand...
Roma women with children call to houses in my estate periodically begging. They usually say then need money to buy nappies or food for the baby, and I'm think that the Community Welfare Officer will resolve such issues. In any case, when I offer them nappies they are not interested as they only want cash. These people are housed in the locality by the local authority. No other group or nationality call to my house begging.
 
I would be interested in knowing the reply to the original question too - does anyone living in Ireland today NEED to beg in order to have sufficient food, shelter and clothing? I have got increasingly hard-hearted and assume that any beggars are just out for extra money (whether for themselves or the men/parents/guardians who them up to it) - I assume that our welfare system is generous enough that no-one needs to beg. I think as previous posters have pointed out there are pimp-type people organising beggars and having children undoubtedly increases the sympathy factor - as does any physical handicap - I dont know if anyone is familiar with her but I cant imagine the one-legged girl who begs at traffic lights around Dublin actually wants to be out doing that - and every time I see her I do get the guilty feelings of 'does she actually need the money' - because if I genuinely thought she did and it would make her life more comfortable, I would give her something but i just cant escape the nagging doubt that she is driven to these place by some able-bodied man who then takes all her money.
 
If an Irish woman begged on the street with her toddler, her child would be taked off her and put into care.
 
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