Review of Prime Time programme on auctioneers

Sunny said:
The case of the developer who was leaving estates unfinished, made a settlement with the CAB for 9 million Euro but was still getting planning permission from County Councils to build more estates was mind boggling. He should have been in jail.
Click to expand...

Prime Time copped out very badly by failing to state that this man has indeed been in jail previously, and more particularly that he is well known as a leading light in Sinn Fein/IRA. Had this been mentioned, viewers might have remembered this the next time they see the likes of Caoimhghin O'Caolain or Sean Crowe spouting off about ripoffs in the building industry.

By the way, had this man been for example a Fianna Fail activist, or one of the supporters at the FF tent at the Galway Races, can anyone imagine Prime Time failing to mention this fact?
 
One of the more disturbing revelations in that programme was the discrepancy found between floor areas quoted by agents and actual areas as measured by the programme makers. I think they found that actual areas were about 10% less than advertised, utterly scandalous.

Another point property sellers might want to consider getting their agent to sign an agreement before instructing them. This is a pretty good template from Australia of such an agreement; http://www.jenman.com.au/BS_S_Guarantee.php
 
They didn't seem to have much apart from the one South Dublin auctioneer who, it is safe to assume, is pretty much out of business now.Most estate agents are looking for speed of sale over price I'd image e.g how is 1% of an extra 5K going to motivate them, it's only worth 50 euro to them.

I would be more convinced about builders leaving estates unfinished although it seems to be a separate issue completely, to me at least. I couldn't wondering how someone would give hundreds of thousands to someone without doing any research into their reputation or look up previous developments they had done. Are people really that lazy or naive? It weakens their arguement when they have been that careless to begin with.
 
serotoninsid said:
Cant see why their role cant be reduced to niche business just like has happened with travel agents and should be happening with mortgage brokers.

For the majority of people who are buying/selling 3/4bed semi-D boxes, theres no need for an estate agent.
Click to expand...

This is an interesting comment, we recently sold our apartment through an agent. I had thought about doing it myself but its not simply as easy as you describe it and its a naive comment. First of all, there is having the time to sell it, secondly there is the problem of finding buyers. I used a guy who had sold lots of apartments in the complex and he had buyers ready to view when we were ready to show it. It was sold in hours. We could have held out but got 11% above the amv and grabbed it with both hands. We could never have found the buyers that quickly. Literally two weeks later the market collapsed for apts in the complex (mid sep). Now we're renting, lets see how it pans out......
 
serotoninsid said:
For the majority of people who are buying/selling 3/4bed semi-D boxes, theres no need for an estate agent.
Click to expand...
From personal experience I beg to differ - am currently selling and we do need the estate agent, it saves us the hassle of having to schedule and attend viewings etc, of which there have been 20 odd so far. For us it's worth the 0.5%, although, obviously for others it would not be.
 
After seeing that program if I was buying a house or apartment and it was advertised with an EA I would just go up and bang on the door and tell them I will only deal with them directly, I'm sure they wouldn't mind as they too would be saving on the commission.
 
DirtyH2O said:
I would be more convinced about builders leaving estates unfinished although it seems to be a separate issue completely, to me at least. I couldn't wondering how someone would give hundreds of thousands to someone without doing any research into their reputation or look up previous developments they had done. Are people really that lazy or naive? It weakens their arguement when they have been that careless to begin with.
Click to expand...

I agree to a certain extent but as the programme pointed out, everything seems to be based on the premise of 'buyer beware'. I am all for due dilligence but when I buy a house or an apartment, is it unreasonable to expect the developer to comply with legal planning permission requirements without having to chase them through the courts. I think if a developer doesn't fulfil his duties on one development, he should not be allowed to develop anywhere else until he remedies the situation.
 
ubiquitous said:
Prime Time copped out very badly by failing to state that this man has indeed been in jail previously, and more particularly that he is well known as a leading light in Sinn Fein/IRA. Had this been mentioned, viewers might have remembered this the next time they see the likes of Caoimhghin O'Caolain or Sean Crowe spouting off about ripoffs in the building industry.

By the way, had this man been for example a Fianna Fail activist, or one of the supporters at the FF tent at the Galway Races, can anyone imagine Prime Time failing to mention this fact?
Click to expand...
Whilst not condoning this individual's behaviour in his role as a property developer, I can't understand how you can see any relevance between this man having been jailed in 70's NI and his current actions.
When you refer to Sinn Fein/IRA are you inferring that this individual is a 'leading light' in both organisations?
Can you not see that if this individual had been a Galway tent visitor it would be relevant in the context of any discussion on planning and unfinished estates etc, because normally the people with the power to grant planning or allow developers to renege on promises re new estates are fianna fail councillors - as the famous tent is one of ff's great fundraising events it is only right that such questions arise.
 
Re: Illegal activities of estate agents etc.-Primetime 10.12.06

Rhino 1 said:
Hi babytooth,
I do feel pity for this EA as cocovich poited out earlier they were piked on and to all intents and purposes are ruined while all the other EA's will get away scott free while probably carrying in the same manner as this one.
Click to expand...

Why would anyone feel sorry for the EA. He robbed people pure and simple.

I think that lad who was on from the IAVI summed up the programme for me when he protested that primetime were focusing in on his members rather than the whole construction industry. He basically stated that we're all at it so why just pick on us. Ah sure if everyone is trying to rip the consumer off sure that grand. Now thats a scary though!!!!
 
Glenbhoy said:
Whilst not condoning this individual's behaviour in his role as a property developer, I can't understand how you can see any relevance between this man having been jailed in 70's NI and his current actions..
Click to expand...

Well, when someone who has recently made a multi-million euro settlement with the Criminal Assets Bureau, AND they have a past criminal record including a term of imprisonment, AND they are now exposed on TV in relation to further scandalous behaviour, most people would conclude that there is indeed an unhappy pattern...

(To take a separate analogy, it would have been rather stupid had the coverage of the recent Michael Stone incident in Stormont failed to mention his terrorist/murderous past and his senior role in loyalist paramilitarism.)

When you refer to Sinn Fein/IRA are you inferring that this individual is a 'leading light' in both organisations?.
Click to expand...
Yes. Is there a difference?

Can you not see that if this individual had been a Galway tent visitor it would be relevant in the context of any discussion on planning and unfinished estates etc, because normally the people with the power to grant planning or allow developers to renege on promises re new estates are fianna fail councillors - as the famous tent is one of ff's great fundraising events it is only right that such questions arise.
Click to expand...

You forget that SFIRA have entered into mutually profitable voting pacts with FF on quite a number of local authorities, where between them they hold voting majorities - with indeed all the powers that you describe.
 
Its fair to say that most practices connected with the sale and purchase of property in this country are dreadfully under regulated. I see this as a huge failing the current government. I also wonder if it is simply incompetence or deliberate, given the 'builders party' connections.

Anyway, it is pointless wasting time and energy debating who is responsible. The only way to change things is to take matters into your own hands. I am not advocating violence but rather by playing them at their own game. Take the tenents of the apartment block in Dublin City Centre who sacked their management company and are running things themselves.

I am amazed that people use EA's to sell their property. Having spent over a year viewing countless properties I have been shocked at how useless EA's are. For example, if you ask them a question about the property they always have to check with the vendor, and thats if you are lucky enough to get the EA who is actually dealing with the property. They do nothing to sell the place. People should set up an open house on a saturday and do the job themselves, and save some money in the process. If you need to advertise just use DAFT or myhome (or other). So now we've elminated EA's and management companies.

I am also in favour of people using their friends to play EA's at their own game. Get them to phone up immediately after you bid to check what the last bid was. This way you'll know if you're being had.

I'd also recommend cutting out mortgage brokers. No offense to regular readers/posters (MB's) on this site but anyone could do what they do all you need is some time.

My final recommendation is about solicitors...no, I am not recommemding we cut them out. In fact, quite the opposite. My advice is to avoid the cheap deals you see or hear of. Bascially you really do get what you pay for. We went through two of them before switching to a more expensive outfit. We discovered that with the cheaper solicitors we were being handled by a legal sec and the customer service was appalling. Imagine being verbally abused for demanding to speak to the solicitor that was supposed to be handling your case. Anyway, we decided to forget the cheap deals and went with another firm. We couldnt believe the difference in service. We were given all possible contact details immediately and they always kept in touch. They also stayed very late to accommodate us to review and sign the contracts. Also, if it wasnt for their efforts on the final days leading up to closing we would have been homeless for a few days.
 
Well after seeing the program last night it got me thinking ! at the moment I am bidding on a house that has gone from 40k under the asking price to 40k over the asking price? this EA is a well know auctioneers in the town of Naas. The EA told me at the start the vendor wanted a quick sale and kept telling me it was about to close at the end of the week so I would put in my last bid each time to be out bid again by the second bidder. Last week I told him I was only prepared to put in a bid on the basis that the sale was closed before the end of the week! this was a Thursday! he agreed and took my bid! Now not even 10mins after I received a phone call back from EA to say that another interested party was now interested to had no choice but to prolong the bidding again? So now the bid is gone 50k over the asking price and still rising! I am now kicking myself for showing way to much interest in this particular property to the EA and don't know now if he is just playing me for everything I got?
 
I think quite a few people here are missing the point. EA's employ all means necessary to make as much money for themselves as they can. I don't think they are unique in this perspective. No point condemning the activities of a section of the industry that is operating (for the most part) within the law.

The issue here is, there is no legislation in place to protect buyers from unethical behaviour (gazumping, ghost bidders etc). The real question is why are they allowed to get away with this by our legislature? There is a very uncomfortable relationship between them and the industry that they should be regulating (as proven by the many tribunals ongoing in this country).

The Irish public seem more than happy to vote for politicians corrupted by this industry. Lawlor, Haughey, Ray Burke. Remember these people were voted in to their positions of power by us. I wish people would remember this stuff when they vote. Maybe we get the Estate agents we deserve?
 
keeva00 said:
Well after seeing the program last night it got me thinking ! at the moment I am bidding on a house that has gone from 40k under the asking price to 40k over the asking price? this EA is a well know auctioneers in the town of Naas. The EA told me at the start the vendor wanted a quick sale and kept telling me it was about to close at the end of the week so I would put in my last bid each time to be out bid again by the second bidder. Last week I told him I was only prepared to put in a bid on the basis that the sale was closed before the end of the week! this was a Thursday! he agreed and took my bid! Now not even 10mins after I received a phone call back from EA to say that another interested party was now interested to had no choice but to prolong the bidding again? So now the bid is gone 50k over the asking price and still rising! I am now kicking myself for showing way to much interest in this particular property to the EA and don't know now if he is just playing me for everything I got?
Click to expand...

Walk away, plain and simple !!
 
@dieter1 & Ghlenboy: I take your point - one that others have made to me ie. time taken to show property & less likelihood of getting a buyer. On the first point, it depends on your situation - how valuable your time is and whether or not you can schedule in viewings.

AS regards having less likelihood of getting a buyer without an estate agent, I'm sure your right. However, this boils down to the current convention as regards the house buying or selling process. 99 times out of a hundred, the seller places the property with an EA. Ditto as regards the buyer - looks at what is available through their local estate agents. I know I did when I bought, but having been lied to as regards the sales price of a house and then having been promised a copy of the plans for the house I ended up buying (plans were never sent nor had he any intention of sending them), I dealt with the developer directly. I did ask him to discount the EA fee (there was no harm in asking) but he said that they had to pay him anyway as they had a contract for the whole estate with him.
However, if sites like privateseller.ie reached a level of critical mass, then that convention could change - and I really hope it does.

No plans on selling in the near future but when the time comes, I hope to give selling privately a good run.
 
privateseller.ie is probably the way to. Everything will be fixed price, no commission.

Shane Ross is also onto something of a "halfway house" The ryanair model is the way to go. Charge for everything instead of a %. EG ad in paper for 4 weeks, €200, ad on myhome €50, sign outside house, €120, cost per viewing €80. That way the buyer and seller will control the whole process and the EA gets the same amount of money regardless of what the house sells for.

When you go in to sell your house the EA lets you decide on how many advertising mediums you want to use.
 
keeva00 said:
So now the bid is gone 50k over the asking price and still rising! I am now kicking myself for showing way to much interest in this particular property to the EA and don't know now if he is just playing me for everything I got?
Click to expand...

Without wishing to turn into Clubman in the ripoff threads, if the house is worth 50K more to you then pay it - if it's not, then don't. EA's job is to get max price for client that punter is willing to pay. It's no different than haggling for a bag with a street trader when you're on holidays. Yes, it sucks that the goalposts move but there is no obligation on you to keep bidding.

I hate EAs since a similar experience when we were buying our house (we walked away in the end, couldn't take anymore of their messing around and we were sure there were no other bidders - although there must have been because the house did sell) but I would probably use the exact same agent if we came to sell as they would probably get the max price for us. And that's part of the problem - they caused us so much stress on the buying side but I would want them selling for us. It's all very well saying you would sell privately or attempt to buy privately but the seller will often get a better price (even net of commission) by using an EA.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top