Will you go for a pint when restrictions are lifted?

[Paul O Mahoney]

I am not vaccinated for this and every year I do not get the flu jag either. I have no issues if someone chooses to take it. I have taken my parents to get theirs and the booster, I feel it is right for them. So I am not against vaccines however it should be a persons own choice.

Why I have decided not to take this vaccine:
1) I've never taken the flu one and it has not been an issue.
2) This might be my main reason - I feel too pressurized to get it be it. Be it from the Government, press, work etc. That just does not sit well with me it's like people believe it is a magic bullet and if you get the vaccine you can neither catch the virus or pass it on, both of which are incorrect.
3) I lead a health life. I do not smoke, drink very little, ,majority of meals are all home made, exercise regularly.
4) I do not go to pubs and work from home I feel I am low risk.

The only reason why I am thinking of getting it would be to reduce the stress on the health service. Nothing more.

I work with a people who got vaccinated early on and are now finding out their vaccine efficacy is running out and they are questioning why they bothered.

And I bet you wear a mask and perform good health practices.

People are free to make up their own minds on getting vaccinated but they also need to understand the consequences of not been vaccinated and that includes barring them from entry to pubs and restaurants.

I know quite a few unvaccinated people many like you, they accept the consequences of being unvaccinated and it doesn't seem to adversely affect their quality of life. They still have a beer but sit in a beer garden.

The argument that vaccinated and unvaccinated people can sit feet apart in pubs/restaurants with bad circulation and not run the risk of either causing infections is incorrect.

The vaccines are a great asset in the fight against covid and it was all clearly explained that they would wane over a period of six months and booster jabs would be needed, maybe its 5 months .

Personally I think we will be asked to take a annual jab if one is developed that will hold its efficacy for 6/9 months but who knows what lies ahead. If we didn't have the vaccines figures would be very much worse, and that's not an attempt to sway you from your choice.

 

[waterman]

Whilst I can happily accept the consequence of not going to the pub or restaurant, I have to admit at being concerned to where this could lead. Today because I do not have X I'm not allowed to the pub but tomorrow another destination is added to the list, then another and very very soon we have a 2 tier society. And why....... people with the vaccine get sick and die too (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/revealed-...-have-died-in-the-last-4-weeks-190548036.html) surely preventing "sick" people be you vaccinated or not from mixing with other people is a better method of keeping hospital numbers down - is that such a crazy idea?

 

[Leo]

I do not have X I'm not allowed to the pub but tomorrow

If you don't have a driving license, you're not allowed to drive, if you don't have a passport, you're not allowed to travel abroad, if you don't have a SafePass, you can't work on a building site, etc..

And why....... people with the vaccine get sick and die too (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/revealed-...-have-died-in-the-last-4-weeks-190548036.html)

Did you miss the 'Death rates among the unvaccinated are significantly higher.' line?

surely preventing "sick" people be you vaccinated or not from mixing with other people is a better method of keeping hospital numbers down - is that such a crazy idea?

Do you have a fool proof, practical, and affordable method of testing people to that level? Keeping in mind that Denmark's testing of 8% of the entire population on a daily basis wasn't able to achieve it.

 

[waterman]

Hello,

To get all the things you list requires a training course & fill in a form. Nothing more. But a person who is otherwise healthy & lives a law abiding life will be treated any differently than another citizen does not sit well with me.

I did not miss that un-vaccinated people get sick and die too. I've never said that was the case. What I was showing is that vaccinated people also get sick and die, by quite significant amounts to boot. I have also said I support anyone who wants to get it

I do not have a fool proof etc method of testing people. I do not believe there is a magic wand (be it vaccinations or testing etc) that can be waved to sort this out. Covid is here for life. It is going no where and is very real. What I do believe is people need to take this opportunity and make changes to their life styles - less drink, less smoking, more exercise, eat healthier food and stop relying on medicine for all aliments (but that discussion can be for another thread). And finally if a person has any symptoms they should stay at home - vaccinated or not.

 

[Leo]

o get all the things you list requires a training course & fill in a form. Nothing more. But a person who is otherwise healthy & lives a law abiding life will be treated any differently than another citizen does not sit well with me.

You still need to prove you're not a danger to yourself or others to get a driving license. To get a covid cert all you need is a couple of little jab that will significantly reduce risk to yourself, and also reduce the risk you pose to others around you.

No one is forcing anyone to get a cert, but while our health service is on the brink of collapse and we're building a massive debt of delayed treatments and diagnoses, we need to implement measures to lessen the burden for the common good. If we're not comfortable with the use of certs to allow access to indoor environments, then the alternative is those environments and businesses will be forced to shut down.

Once numbers are back under control, the cert requirements should fall away as is proposed.

I did not miss that un-vaccinated people get sick and die too. I've never said that was the case. What I was showing is that vaccinated people also get sick and die, by quite significant amounts to boot. I have also said I support anyone who wants to get it

No one ever claimed that vaccines were 100% effective, but what the data shows us is the the vast majority of those being hospitalized, requiring intensive care, or dying are unvaccinated. Speed limits do not eliminate 100% of road deaths, but that's on argument to scrap them.

 

[odyssey06]

Headline: Pubs set to close at midnight from Thursday...​

Don't panic... they will reopen the next day.

Midnight closing time for pubs from Thursday as Cabinet agrees on measures to curb Covid-19

The government’s previous advice for people to work from home if possible is to come into force again from Friday morning.

www.thejournal.ie

 

[waterman]

I only want to highlight my concerns on the path of restricting people could lead to and that the vaccine is not enough for people to let their guard down as they can catch it and spread. Everyone needs to look longer term at how they can better their bodies to handle future outbreaks.....

Correct me if I'm wrong however if a number of vaccinated people are eating at a table and one is infected, albeit with minor symptoms as is most likely with the vaccine, they can pass it onto the other people they are with who could all potentially still end up in hospital. Yes it is less likely but can still happen.

I would honestly prefer to see a much stronger message communicated along the lines of - If you have any symptoms stay at home and get tested. As right now people have a belief of "If I am vaccinated I can go and do anything" which unfortunately people seem to have.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

I only want to highlight my concerns on the path of restricting people could lead to and that the vaccine is not enough for people to let their guard down as they can catch it and spread. Everyone needs to look longer term at how they can better their bodies to handle future outbreaks.....

Correct me if I'm wrong however if a number of vaccinated people are eating at a table and one is infected, albeit with minor symptoms as is most likely with the vaccine, they can pass it onto the other people they are with who could all potentially still end up in hospital. Yes it is less likely but can still happen.

I would honestly prefer to see a much stronger message communicated along the lines of - If you have any symptoms stay at home and get tested. As right now people have a belief of "If I am vaccinated I can go and do anything" which unfortunately people seem to have.

People have a choice nobody is trying to take their choices away, and there are consequences for not choosing to vaccinate.

My health has had its ups and downs, I drive anymore because my treatments took away a few faculties, even though my license was valid upto 2 years ago and I could renew but haven't.

People need to look beyond their own desires, and do what is necessary for your family, communities and country.

Vaccination were never going to be the panacea for this pandemic, keeping people from getting sick or dying was the ultimate goal, and everyone with a modicum of understanding knows that vaccinated people would died, but if the viral load was reduced in our communities by good health practices we wouldn't be where we are.

Choices have consequences

 

[Leo]

I only want to highlight my concerns on the path of restricting people could lead to and that the vaccine is not enough for people to let their guard down as they can catch it and spread. Everyone needs to look longer term at how they can better their bodies to handle future outbreaks.....

What path do you think these temporary measures are going down? Beware the conspiracy theorists that will tell you this is all part of a sinister government plan to take away all our liberties.

I see the temporary restrictions as allowing those who choose to get vaccinated (to protect themselves and those around them) to get back to a more normal life more quickly, and I see that as a much better option than the alternative of closing down more of society because of the risk posed by a small minority who choose not to be vaccinated.

Correct me if I'm wrong however if a number of vaccinated people are eating at a table and one is infected, albeit with minor symptoms as is most likely with the vaccine, they can pass it onto the other people they are with who could all potentially still end up in hospital. Yes it is less likely but can still happen.

It is possible for a vaccinated person who becomes infected to pass it on to others, but an infected vaccinated person is far less likely to pass it on than an unvaccinated infected person.

I would honestly prefer to see a much stronger message communicated along the lines of - If you have any symptoms stay at home and get tested. As right now people have a belief of "If I am vaccinated I can go and do anything" which unfortunately people seem to have.

Where have you been for the last ~20 months? What more could they do to get that message out there?

Everyone knows vaccines aren't 100% effective, after all the media coverage on the effectiveness of the various vaccines, there is zero excuse for not understanding that. The leaflet provided with the vaccine also calls that out very clearly. Media coverage for many months has spoken of how protection fades over time. I don't believe there are many people at all who think they can do anything just because they are vaccinated.

If the current problem was only one of vaccinated people engaging in risky activity, you wouldn't have all those unvaccinated people in hospital. A component of the problem is people who think the health advice doesn't apply to them, and the number of that cohort who are unvaccinated.

 

[Bluefin]

What path do you think these temporary measures are going down? Beware the conspiracy theorists that will tell you this is all part of a sinister government plan to take away all our liberties.

I see the temporary restrictions as allowing those who choose to get vaccinated (to protect themselves and those around them) to get back to a more normal life more quickly, and I see that as a much better option than the alternative of closing down more of society because of the risk posed by a small minority who choose not to be vaccinated.


It is possible for a vaccinated person who becomes infected to pass it on to others, but an infected vaccinated person is far less likely to pass it on than an unvaccinated infected person.


Where have you been for the last ~20 months? What more could they do to get that message out there?

Everyone knows vaccines aren't 100% effective, after all the media coverage on the effectiveness of the various vaccines, there is zero excuse for not understanding that. The leaflet provided with the vaccine also calls that out very clearly. Media coverage for many months has spoken of how protection fades over time. I don't believe there are many people at all who think they can do anything just because they are vaccinated.

If the current problem was only one of vaccinated people engaging in risky activity, you wouldn't have all those unvaccinated people in hospital. A component of the problem is people who think the health advice doesn't apply to them, and the number of that cohort who are unvaccinated.

What more could they do to get that message out there?

I think a very strong message could have been sent out by tge government and the sporting bodies last weekend by insisting on Covid19 certs were required to attend the matches, masks to be worn at all times and no bar/food facilities opened in the stadium. It would have really emphasised that this virus is very much a real threat to everyone... Think about the positive message it would have sent to all the people at home watching the games...great marketing trick missed.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

What more could they do to get that message out there?

I think a very strong message could have been sent out by tge government and the sporting bodies last weekend by insisting on Covid19 certs were required to attend the matches, masks to be worn at all times and no bar/food facilities opened in the stadium. It would have really emphasised that this virus is very much a real threat to everyone... Think about the positive message it would have sent to all the people at home watching the games...great marketing trick missed.

But would we have beaten the All Blacks if the crowd was sober.........I was there and never mind the Stadium it was like any other Rugby game since I started going 30 years ago.......and afterwards let's leave it to the imagination.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Headline: Pubs set to close at midnight from Thursday...​

Don't panic... they will reopen the next day.

Midnight closing time for pubs from Thursday as Cabinet agrees on measures to curb Covid-19

The government’s previous advice for people to work from home if possible is to come into force again from Friday morning.

www.thejournal.ie

I'm in Cork visting.....and just having a pint in an " auld haunt" in Douglas and the lads were saying that doesn't affect them as they close at midnight, weekends anyway.

This place pre Covid would be hopping until 2am and sometimes beyond.

It was bound to happen and personally it's a good thing

 

[Leo]

I think a very strong message could have been sent out by tge government and the sporting bodies last weekend by insisting on Covid19 certs were required to attend the matches, masks to be worn at all times and no bar/food facilities opened in the stadium.

So they should issue advice that conflicts with current legislation?

 

[waterman]

People have a choice nobody is trying to take their choices away, and there are consequences for not choosing to vaccinate

Choices have consequences

What path do you think these temporary measures are going down?

They have just today added cinemas to the list of places - again not a big concern for me. Tomorrow??? Other countries are much worse than here - mandate to be allowed work being the most concerning ref Italy and USA.

Do you agree with this? That in order to do their jobs healthy, fit and good citizens cannot do their work unless they have taken their medicine. To be very honest that scares me. Will it come to that in Ireland I really really hope not but it is not impossible to imagine either!

What are your thoughts there? Where for you is it acceptable to draw the line where I cannot attend?

 

[Sophrosyne]

What's the big deal about getting vaccinated?

 

[Leo]

Do you agree with this? That in order to do their jobs healthy, fit and good citizens cannot do their work unless they have taken their medicine.

But they are not being good citizens if they simply refuse to be vaccinated for anything other than legitimate medical reasons. If they're among the minority choosing not to be vaccinated because they don't like being advised what's best for them and wider society, then they clearly don't care about their colleagues or anyone else unable to work or otherwise impacted by the restrictions.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

They have just today added cinemas to the list of places - again not a big concern for me. Tomorrow??? Other countries are much worse than here - mandate to be allowed work being the most concerning ref Italy and USA.

Do you agree with this? That in order to do their jobs healthy, fit and good citizens cannot do their work unless they have taken their medicine. To be very honest that scares me. Will it come to that in Ireland I really really hope not but it is not impossible to imagine either!

What are your thoughts there? Where for you is it acceptable to draw the line where I cannot attend?

I personally believe that those "who don't believe that fire warms you need to be held closer to it" will never understand anything.

"Ifs and buts and coconuts "isn't a good strategy by Governments or individuals.

Personally my view non compliance to the general health advice and scientific data , is that yes they, who don't comply should be shunned, or at least curtailed.

You should ask your parents if you got all the inoculations since you arrived in this world....that answer is most definitely yes.

On topic 2 pints of Moretti tonight, the taste of " more" and phone number taken and cert scanned....no vaccine certs no entry....that's the message, it was lovely inside , bit of a walk for a smoke though.

 

[TrundleAlong]

I would also like to see signs at the entrance to supermarkets, cinemas, hairdressers etc. telling the public that all our staff have been vaccinated. If I knew that the person cutting my hair was not vaccinated then I would prefer to go elsewhere.

 

[waterman]

Whilst I am enjoying the discussion we are having (as I sit next to my nice stove with a Lomza Export beer) and it's great there is a facility to have these conversations I am surprised and sad (naïve too) to discover that people in Ireland feel that their otherwise good neighbor should be "shunned".

...they clearly don't care about their colleagues or anyone else unable to work or otherwise impacted by the restrictions.

I know not personally directed at me however I can't let this one go. I work in a job where on occasions 2 people are required to look out and support the other. I take my colleagues lives very seriously and ensure all best practice are followed.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

I would also like to see signs at the entrance to supermarkets, cinemas, hairdressers etc. telling the public that all our staff have been vaccinated. If I knew that the person cutting my hair was not vaccinated then I would prefer to go elsewhere.

Why? The issue isn't the staff the issue is the punters.
There are things like sanitizer not being available or not full....but this goes back to the common sense, if the premises doesn't have the basics...walk on.

I tried to buy paint today, oils and acrylic, and the queue was 20ish ....I'll get back there tomorrow, but stated on a board outside, " 4 customers at a time, and spend as long as as much as possible " .

It didn't matter if all staff were vaccinated they just did the right thing.