Fire brigade charge - fallen tree on car

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Morty1

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Hi, a tree fell on my car while I was driving it on a public road. No damage physically, though the car was a write off. The local authority have classified it as a road traffic accident, and sent me a bill for 1680.00 - 8 fire fighters for 4 hours. Am I liable for the entire bill, or should the landowner who owns the tree that caused the incident have any responsibility for the bill?
 
I wouldn't be too quick to just hand it over to my Insurance Provider (NB. if it's only for the Fire Brigade bill of €1680 )

As it is a comparatively small claim they may well just pay it in full ( not worth their time to question it ) and impact your NCD and
if they do, you will not be 'claims free' to allow you find competitive alternative insurance, usually for 5 years.

Who called the fire service? Surely that should be first 'port of call' for that bill?

It's bad enough that your car is written off, through no fault of your own, but why should you be out of pocket as well ?
Your claim is against whoever is responsible for the tree.

Obviously you are duty bound to inform your insurance Co. of the incident, but make sure you provide all pertinent details (landowner name, address, time/place of incident, who called emergency services, pictures if you have any, etc ) and it is not just paid out from your comprehensive cover (assuming you have same).

I would stress to them that you are not liable nor at fault.
 
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Thanks for your replies. Sorry, I should have said, I didn't claim on my car insurance for the incident because it would have cost me more money in the long run with losing my NCB. I just don't know now whether I am liable for the entire fire brigade charge. A passing motorist called the fire brigade. There had been a storm the previous evening, and the fire brigade were busy all day clearing trees. Because the local authority have classified it as a road traffic accident, I was billed. But if it had been classified as a tree falling. I imagine the landowner would have been billed. I suppose my contention is that - the tree falling caused the whole incident, but legally I don't know whether that matters
 
Were you present still when the FB arrived ? If it were me I would state I didn't call any emergency services and would have dealt with it myself accordingly.
BTW, might the lamdowner be the self same council ?
 
Yes, I was there when the FB arrived, but elcato the incident happened a few months ago now. Should I just pay up? Several emails between myself and the local authority by now. They have reviewed my appeal and dismissed it. They say they are not billing the landowner, because they have classified it as a road traffic accident so basically they are not taking the fallen tree into account. But the majority of the FB time would have been spent clearing the tree. Basically they pushed my car into the hard shoulder, and I really don't think that would require 8 fire fighters for 4 hours each
 
SparkRite said:
Your claim is against whoever is responsible for the tree
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I don't think the landowner would have liability unless they were at fault through negligence - that they knew, or should have known, that the tree was in a hazardous condition through disease, damage, root disturbance, etc. This might be difficult to establish if everything has been cleared up. And especially if the incident happened during a storm.

If the car was a write-off and you are claiming for this it might be best to just include the fire brigade. Otherwise you will need to argue it out with the Council.
 
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Thanks Early Riser, I am not making a claim with my insurance company because it would cost me financially. I suppose what I'm asking is this - am I legally liable for the entire FB bill, or should the landowner who's tree caused the incident be liable, or both?
 
Get legal! If the tree fell on your car whilst driving then it's not an RTA in my mind. Your solicitor should be able to send a couple of letters for a lot less than what the FB charge is. By the way you're on a hiding to nothing if you start querying why 8 FB staff had to be there for 4 hours.
 
From what you're saying
1. Someone else's tree fell on your car.
2. Someone else called the fire brigade
3. They pushed your car to the side
4. They then proceeded to cut up the tree (which was not yours, nor you caused to fall)
5. They are billing you for the whole incident

If it was me, I'd get legal advice as €1680 is a lot of money to pay for something you appear not to have had a hand in.
 
Morty1 said:
am I legally liable for the entire FB bill, or should the landowner who's tree caused the incident be liable, or both?
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There does not appear to be a clear answer to this. If the tree fell on a fine day there is a good chance that the landowner would be liable. If it was in a storm it would be a lot less clear - unless there was evidence of negligence.

I suggest your best bet is to argue with the Council that, in any event, it was not you who was at fault and that it is the responsibility of the landowner, if anyone. Try to get them to pursue the landowner. Whether they succed or not, they might eventually back off you - or settle for a lesser amount. As you do not appear to be the one who called the fire brigade this should strengthen your case.

Here is a recent Farmers' Journal article : https://www.farmersjournal.ie/who-is-responsible-for-a-fallen-tree-594068

And this is from an Indo article:

"Tree damage during a storm is usually considered a 'natural' event or an 'act of God' that is nobody's fault. However, if a tree or limb falls on a sunny day and damages property or causes injury, then the land owner can and likely would be held responsible."
www.independent.ie

Advice: Are land owners liable for damaged caused by trees and hedges

Q I am a landowner and have an issue with mature deciduous trees which are located approximately six feet inside a ditch which adjoins a road. The trees are of great value to me as they are located on the boundary of my lands. I would be sorry to have to cut them back, but I am concerned about...
www.independent.ie www.independent.ie

PS. I expect they are pursuing you in the expectation that you are making an insurance claim and the fire brigade would be included in this.
 
Who needs the hassle? That's what you pay your insurance for; let them deal with it.
 
Early Riser said:
I don't think the landowner would have liability unless they were at fault through negligence - that they knew, or should have known, that the tree was in a hazardous condition through disease, damage, root disturbance, etc. This might be difficult to establish if everything has been cleared up. And especially if the incident happened during a storm.
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Exactly, as I said, the claim would be against the party responsible for the tree.
Whether said claim would be successful or not is indeed dependant on a number of factors, not least the ones you have mentioned.
 
Buddyboy said:
From what you're saying
1. Someone else's tree fell on your car.
2. Someone else called the fire brigade
3. They pushed your car to the side
4. They then proceeded to cut up the tree (which was not yours, nor you caused to fall)
5. They are billing you for the whole incident

If it was me, I'd get legal advice as €1680 is a lot of money to pay for something you appear not to have had a hand in.
Click to expand...
That seems to be it, in a nutshell.

When you put it like that, it seems incredible.
 
Tell the Local authority that you will see them in court and just represent yourself. Just outline the facts to the judge that you have outlined above. Don't we pay property tax for services like FB.
 
Thanks everyone, you've been a great help. I think I will go down the legal route, contact a solicitor and see what they say. Thanks again
 
Before you go down the legal route,

Just to clarify, I know you said the tree fell on your car as you were driving, that being the case, i believe you have no liability there, and would not be paying this bill, but, if you drove into a falling tree, or felled tree, well, that's a different story, and you would have a responsibility for this charge.
 
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