South Korea and Singapore aren't totalitarian, authoritarian perhaps but they are handling this much better than Italy.
The government's response to Coronavirus
- Thread starter Susie2017
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South Korea and Singapore aren't totalitarian, authoritarian perhaps but they are handling this much better than Italy.
Daddy Ireland
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The cabinet sub committee speaking now will frighten many people. Queues at the shops very shortly.
Daddy Ireland
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Oh how we may rue having those Italian supporters over the weekend. Italy is horrific.
And Denmark can do this and we cannot because?
I was in Lidl last night and there was no toilet rolls but there was plenty of wine. Some people really do have screwed up priorities.
Brendan Burgess
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Are we doing better than the Dutch
:quality(70)/cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/irishtimes/YVGFZAU6X2RYVKNZ57EVEKCEF4.jpg)
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The position of Dutch authorities was that only people with symptoms could transmit coronavirus. It was repeated by the government, national and local health authorities, justifying a cascade of decisions that allowed the [broken link removed] to keep up a “business as usual” attitude even as the virus exponentially spread.
The problem was, it was wrong. As early as February 21st, Chinese doctors published a case of apparent asymptomatic transmission; German doctors wrote to the New England Journal of Medicine on March 5th to warn of a case near Munich. The World Health Organisation advises transmission without symptoms is possible.
Despite this the Dutch government and health authorities stuck to looser quarantine advice than other European countries up to the time of publishing, telling people who had travelled from [broken link removed], outbreak spots in [broken link removed], and [broken link removed], that they need only self-quarantine if experiencing symptoms.
As well as being underpinned by a flawed assumption, the advice relies on people knowing whether they have symptoms or not. This is questionable: Chris Higgins, a GP in [broken link removed], provoked an outcry after treating 70 patients while he had what he thought was the tail end of a mild cold, before he tested positive for Covid-19.
How Dutch false sense of security helped coronavirus spread
Flawed advice that only those with symptoms can spread virus contributes to slow response
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The position of Dutch authorities was that only people with symptoms could transmit coronavirus. It was repeated by the government, national and local health authorities, justifying a cascade of decisions that allowed the [broken link removed] to keep up a “business as usual” attitude even as the virus exponentially spread.
The problem was, it was wrong. As early as February 21st, Chinese doctors published a case of apparent asymptomatic transmission; German doctors wrote to the New England Journal of Medicine on March 5th to warn of a case near Munich. The World Health Organisation advises transmission without symptoms is possible.
Despite this the Dutch government and health authorities stuck to looser quarantine advice than other European countries up to the time of publishing, telling people who had travelled from [broken link removed], outbreak spots in [broken link removed], and [broken link removed], that they need only self-quarantine if experiencing symptoms.
As well as being underpinned by a flawed assumption, the advice relies on people knowing whether they have symptoms or not. This is questionable: Chris Higgins, a GP in [broken link removed], provoked an outcry after treating 70 patients while he had what he thought was the tail end of a mild cold, before he tested positive for Covid-19.
hydrocarbon
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From journal.ie report:
"Speaking this evening, health officials said ‘socially restrictive actions’ – visitor bans – at nursing homes are not necessary and were not recommended by health authorities. Dr Tony Holohan said it would be appropriate that they be lifted."
Many countries have introduced visitor restrictions on nursing homes/long-term care facilities, and for good reason. Older people are very vulnerable, as are the staff, who may not have the necessary PPE, for example. For an example of what can go wrong look at the Life Care Center in Washington State -120 residents, at least 19 deaths due to COVID-19 out of 26 total, 50+ others testing positive; 180 staff - 70 with symptoms (they haven't all even been tested yet). 10 other nursing homes in Washington State with cases. Yet in Ireland the government is telling private nursing homes to roll back sensible measures put in place last Friday by NHI (and which do not amount to a total ban).
In my view Tony Holohan should be removed from his position - his advice is reckless and irresponsible, and seems predicated on the belief that Irish people are basically easily-fatigued child-like simpletons. The advice from front-line doctors in Italy is to take this seriously and see the inconveniences and restrictions to normal daily routines for what they are - relatively minor compared to watching people die because of a lack of ICU beds, medical staff not going home for two weeks to protect their families etc, and they were talking about the total lockdown of the country, not the relatively tame measures Holohan wants to undo.
In Ireland it has often been left to the private sector/institutions to take action while the government buries its head in the sand. For example Trinity College followed many US universities by first by requiring quarantne for travelers for badly affected countries, and then moving lectures online (measures also attacked by Holohan in his press conference). NHI took a proactive stance and now finds itself being told to undo measures. The airlines themselves that have stopped flights to Italy rather than a government directive as in some other EU countries. No political leadership at all and a chief medical officer acting way beyond his remit and who seems to think he should be dictating policy for all public and private institutions. Perhaps he should be focused on improving testing policy, sourcing PPE and the implications of proven asymptomatic transmission.
"Speaking this evening, health officials said ‘socially restrictive actions’ – visitor bans – at nursing homes are not necessary and were not recommended by health authorities. Dr Tony Holohan said it would be appropriate that they be lifted."
Many countries have introduced visitor restrictions on nursing homes/long-term care facilities, and for good reason. Older people are very vulnerable, as are the staff, who may not have the necessary PPE, for example. For an example of what can go wrong look at the Life Care Center in Washington State -120 residents, at least 19 deaths due to COVID-19 out of 26 total, 50+ others testing positive; 180 staff - 70 with symptoms (they haven't all even been tested yet). 10 other nursing homes in Washington State with cases. Yet in Ireland the government is telling private nursing homes to roll back sensible measures put in place last Friday by NHI (and which do not amount to a total ban).
In my view Tony Holohan should be removed from his position - his advice is reckless and irresponsible, and seems predicated on the belief that Irish people are basically easily-fatigued child-like simpletons. The advice from front-line doctors in Italy is to take this seriously and see the inconveniences and restrictions to normal daily routines for what they are - relatively minor compared to watching people die because of a lack of ICU beds, medical staff not going home for two weeks to protect their families etc, and they were talking about the total lockdown of the country, not the relatively tame measures Holohan wants to undo.
In Ireland it has often been left to the private sector/institutions to take action while the government buries its head in the sand. For example Trinity College followed many US universities by first by requiring quarantne for travelers for badly affected countries, and then moving lectures online (measures also attacked by Holohan in his press conference). NHI took a proactive stance and now finds itself being told to undo measures. The airlines themselves that have stopped flights to Italy rather than a government directive as in some other EU countries. No political leadership at all and a chief medical officer acting way beyond his remit and who seems to think he should be dictating policy for all public and private institutions. Perhaps he should be focused on improving testing policy, sourcing PPE and the implications of proven asymptomatic transmission.
Brendan Burgess
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Good balanced article from Paul Cullen
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www.irishtimes.com
o have the Irish authorities done the right things, at the right time, that will enable the State to contain the threat posed by the virus? Or have we set up the conditions for an explosion of cases similar to what has been seen in Italy?
These are difficult questions to answer. In the fullness of time, there will be answers, some imbued with the perfect vision that is hindsight
Coronavirus: Irish approach to outbreak under increasing scrutiny
Given events elsewhere, public concern that authorities have been slow to act is mounting
o have the Irish authorities done the right things, at the right time, that will enable the State to contain the threat posed by the virus? Or have we set up the conditions for an explosion of cases similar to what has been seen in Italy?
These are difficult questions to answer. In the fullness of time, there will be answers, some imbued with the perfect vision that is hindsight
I suppose the lads coming back from Cheltenham will be OK. Hopefully the boats and planes will be sprayed....
Every picture you see from China, South Korea etc have teams in full protective gear spraying everything that moves and doesn't move.
Somehow I get the feeling that our stocks of sprays are a bit like the grit we put on the roads when they freeze.......on order. It seems we are just playing for time here while we order everything in.
Every picture you see from China, South Korea etc have teams in full protective gear spraying everything that moves and doesn't move.
Somehow I get the feeling that our stocks of sprays are a bit like the grit we put on the roads when they freeze.......on order. It seems we are just playing for time here while we order everything in.
The spread seems to be primarily person to person. The spraying is mainly for show.
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SlugBreath
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I notice that the Irish Government is publishing statistics of cases for Southern Ireland separate to Northern Ireland. It sounds better that we have less cases this way.
I think that they should be included together.
I think that they should be included together.
Brendan Burgess
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I don't think that the Irish government can be held responsible for the cases in the North?
They are reporting cases for the entire country, not just southern Ireland (I take it that you are referring to Munster and the bottom half of Leinster?). They are not reporting cases from Northern Ireland as it is part of the UK. By the same measure France are not reporting cases which are in Belgium.
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Do you not think that they should be reporting cases for the island of Ireland? Then break it down in to various areas/counties.
Why? We are aware of the cases in Northern Ireland but the Irish government and the Irish Health Service is only responsible for cases in Ireland (which, for clarity, is the name of this country).
Trinners and the airlines dealt with it when it was too late. The virus got in there. Even if the guberment insisted on either of these they would probably have been told where to go unless they were willing to hand over the dosh they were going to lose.