Major fall in BTC price (16th Jan)

TheBigShort said:
You are not interested in trying to stop people losing their money, in fact the opposite. It is in your interest that people lose their money via bitcoin going to zero.
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Hi Shortie

I am strongly advising the people who listen to me that they should not buy Bitcoin. If they have it that they should sell it.

I have also drawn people's attention to very generous odds on Betfair and Paddy Power. That is not in my interest as it drove the odds down.

But you are right. I have shorted Bitcoin and I am delighted to see it falling.

But what I say or do will have no impact on the price.

Brendan
 
Couldn't agree more with Brendan. Bitcoin is a lightly cloaked ponzi scheme. Just because my nasal hair is of limited supply and can be mined if I'm lucky enough to live until 2040 doesn't mean it has inherent value. Also Bitcoin fails as a currency due to extreme volatility. Who accepts payment in BTC when by the time it hits your account it could have dropped 30% in value?
 
Bitcoin is an open source project with a public ledger.
Literally anybody in the world can scrutinize the code and the actual transactions and many (millions?) do.
It would be quite remarkable if so many eyeballs on such an open project would somehow fail to spot the scam.

The volatility of price does not come from anything within Bitcoin's rules; it appears to follow-on from the actions and statements of government regulators and banking cartels.
 
Flybytheseat said:
Just because my nasal hair is of limited supply and can be mined if I'm lucky enough to live until 2040 doesn't mean it has inherent value.
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It's actually 2140. All the same if you could work on transferring your NH anywhere in the world within 10 mins you are worth $100bn give or take $25bn depending what time of day it is.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Surely that is irrelevant to Bitcoin which is independent of all countries and regulators? Why would they let them affect the price?
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That statement makes no sense.

If say, a government bans all gold or decrees some new onus regulation around holding and trading of gold; i'm sure you can imagine that will effect the relationship between those ounces of gold and the dollars and euros people are prepared to exchange it for.

Let's put this another way.
Can you cite any reasons within the bitcoin protocol, that result in price volatility?
 
Hi,

Despite Tulipmania back in the 1600s, Tulips still have a value today. Sure, they have a physical presence, but in reality are they anything more than a colourful plant (or even a weed, in some peoples eyes) ?

During the DotCom Bubble, all sorts of tech companies were launched and floated. Many of them went bust, or lost a large percentage of their value and investors lost billions as a result. Most had no tangible assets, no long term contracted cashflows, many were making massive losses and were little more than a dream of what the world might offer consumers or businesses in the future. However, despite all of the negative stories from the DotCom bubble, today we have companies like Amazon, Ebay, Priceline etc. all worth billions. These companies are here today because investors speculated and backed them.

No more than the survival and success of some DotCom companies, or people still being willing to pay for Tulips, I believe that some crypto currencies will survive and even increase in value. As I've said elsewhere, I'm not entirely convinced that these future successes will include Bitcoin, but I do believe that there is justification for investing in them as some will ultimately retain or increase their current value. My reasoning for this is simple - it will be down to supply and demand for the individual crypto currency, where the crypto will offer a convenient medium of exchange that can be used instantly, at very low cost, anywhere across the globe and have become popular, hence the demand will have increased.

Obviously, there is more justification for putting speculative investment into some of the companies behind the cryptos or the exchanges themselves, but they are independent of the currencies.

None of the above takes from the fact that investing in crypto currencies is very high risk.


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You guys got great value out of talking about Bitcoins non value ! I was done to death talking about Bitcoin in December took January off mentioning it I wonder how many more years this thread will exist I doubt we see the end of Bitcoin any time soon.
 
RichInSpirit said:
Bitcoin up nearly 40% from it's recent lowest point. ☺
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Good job I didn't buy and pay for something with Bitcoin as I'd have overpaid by 40%.....highlights why this is not a runner as a currency to pay for goods or services so has no real value whatsoever.
 
The comparisons with internet companies or indeed the internet itself are misguided to say the least.

The characteristics that one would expect to see are:

- A store of value, e.g. gold.

- Backed by something or someone.

- Generally accepted in exchange for goods and services.

I agree with Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett who know a thing about investing; this scam will have 21 million units in circulation...until it doesn’t.

It is backed by nothing and, despite the protests of disgruntled millenials, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies will be crushed by governments and regulatory authorities.

Other than the odd publicity hungry crackpot and criminals/terrorists, nobody will accept this rubbish. And how could they, given the volatility? If I am a tulip seller, how can I run my business and price my bunches of flowers if I accept Bitcoin.

This stuff is the con-job of the ages.
 
The volatility is not Bitcoin's doing.

"Backed by something or someone" sounds like an appeal to authority.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
The comparisons with internet companies or indeed the internet itself are misguided to say the least.
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Why is it misguided? Plenty of people were not early adopters of the internet - as it didn't fulfil their needs. It was work in progress. People are judging btc and cryptocurrency generally based on where it's at in it's development right now....as if to suggest those parameters are fixed - when most likely they're not.

The internet had scaling issues. Remember those dial-up modems - when it was called the World Wide Wait? ...when you'd have to wait for it to display a very simple image or deliver an email? When so many applications either had not been developed for it OR simply couldn't be run as the infrastructure wasn't there - whether that be bandwidth or certain protocols, etc.

Gordon Gekko said:
- Backed by something or someone.
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The USD or Euro is not backed by jack. They're pieces of paper in the same way as bitcoin is a line of code. Sentiment dictates - and if there's enough will to give BTC (or other crypto's) a certain value, then that's all there is to it. Perhaps that may go down to zero or perhaps it won't.

Gordon Gekko said:
- Generally accepted in exchange for goods and services.
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It had made modest in-roads in this regard...but the momentum has gone into reverse as bitcoin hit scaling issues (resulting in prohibitive tx fees and times). If that gets resolved by Lightning Network, then it can move forward again in this respect.

Gordon Gekko said:
It is backed by nothing and, despite the protests of disgruntled millenials, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies will be crushed by governments and regulatory authorities.
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We've covered the 'backing' business. As regards regulation, that may well be - but we're going to find out very soon how that pans out -as regulatory frameworks are on the way in all jurisdictions.

Gordon Gekko said:
This stuff is the con-job of the ages.
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A 'con-job' would suggest that someone has pimped this at the consumer when no such thing has happened. Early on, people took to it as they believed in the concept. The crowd that got involved in the last few months did so on a purely speculative basis.

With regard to volatility, I agree that it's an issue in terms of the 'store of value' angle and also use as a transactional currency. However, the very regulation which you say will kill btc (and it might well do so...we'll have to see) could play a very healthy role in addressing this. Furthermore, it would be plausible to believe that over time, volatility will dissipate.
 
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Bitcoin actually has the lowest volatility of any crypto.
That volatility is due to perception, that perception follows government statements and actions.
Government basically creates the volatility.

Methods by which that volatility can be lowered, such as Futures and ETF's are a work in progress.
By denying the market's desire for bitcoin ETF's, the government prevents bitcoin from reducing volatility.

Personally i believe that this is in part fecklessness by government, but mostly i think it's collusion with Banks as both they and banks don't like the competition.
 
tecate, Bitcoin is allegedly a currency, the internet is a network. We may end up using digital currencies, but my best guess is that we’d be using crypto-Dollars (for example) and not 21 million units of unregulated nonsense dreamed up by some fella in his bedroom.

The US Dollar is most certainly backed by something: the largest and most powerful military force ever assembled.
 
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