US regime change in Venezuela

Just adding another excuse, re Venezuela....it's a "so called socialist" state...sure, tisn't socialist at all at all!
 
Purple said:
Capitalism and Credit are not the same thing. I think we both agree with that. We don't need Socialism to reign in credit we just need limits on credit and a slow unwinding of the perpetual reliance of States on borrowed cash.
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Agreed, credit and capitalism are not the same. But how do you impose limits on credit? Through regulation? Derived from social policy?

Purple said:
See that's where it (the conspiracy) breaks down; the US Military Complex is funded by the US government through taxes. It is not funded by private credit. They have no dog in the fight.
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Yes, true. But in reality its a country that can't agree a common health care policy, or regulate for gun ownership, yet 50% of tax dollars goes to military? How did that happen? Who votes for that?
Unless of course it has nothing to do with democracy, and all to do with banking cartel, complicit government, in the interests of sustaining (of what they perceive) are the US global interests.
Nothing to do with socialism, nothing to do with democracy, nothing to do with capitalism (in its truest sense).

Purple said:
Eh, 20% of people in this country live on welfare. Them's the facts.
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According to your other posts only 30% of taxpayers are net contributors, so perhaps it's 70%?
The 20% you speak of, are not living off the backs of working people. Many of them are working people themselves. Simply the income they earn is (deemed) insufficient to provide for necessities like shelter and food.

Purple said:
No, our socialist governments have done it on their behalf.
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Well earlier you were worried about Paul Murphy and his ilk getting into power.
It would appear from that statement that you recognize there are different strands of socialism?
I mean why worry about Paul Murphy if the socialists are already in power?

Purple said:
Why not look at both?
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Absolutely. Who wants to open a thread on Apple's €15 billion tax bill? If there is one open I missed it. Or the EU calling out Amazon too? Or the Panama files?
 
Purple said:
How can the State not control the wealth but at the same time be the controller of the wealth through legislative and regulatory frameworks derived from democratic socialism? It either takes and spends the money or it doesn't.
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Sorry, perhaps I misinterpreted. I am distinguishing between a 'socialist' state that dictates what, when, where, and how much we produce, and a socialist republic (power to the people and all that!) through democratic means.
 
Purple said:
So what we have now, is that what you are talking about?
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So we have....

Highly paid public servants
Highly valuable public servant pensions
Highly paid OAP pensioners
Highly paid dole
Medical cards for 1/3 of people
Low/Middle earners paying diddly squat income tax-wise

Have we slept-walked into a socialist republic?
Are we proof that socialism does in fact work?
Can we bottle and patent the recipe?

How are you feeling today Comrade Purple?

Firefly.
 
TheBigShort said:
Sorry, perhaps I misinterpreted. I am distinguishing between a 'socialist' state that dictates what, when, where, and how much we produce, and a socialist republic (power to the people and all that!) through democratic means.
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That's just a democratic republic.
 
Firefly said:
How are you feeling today Comrade Purple?
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Like we've already gone way too far to the left and in doing so locked in a cycle of poverty, low opportunity, reduced social advancement and a State sector with a deep rooted culture of hostile defensiveness, inefficiency and mediocrity which lets down the citizens of this country, particularly those who need help the most.

Like my children would be better off leaving.

Depressed and angry.
 
I don't know about that, but I do know the figures for welfare recipients and beneficiaries.
 
Most of them pay indirect taxes, yes.

Some of them pay direct taxes.

Not many are working, as many of them are retired, or else on means-tested payments.
 
Protocol said:
approx 50% of the population are recipients or beneficiaries of weekly welfare payments.
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Protocol said:
Not many are working, as many of them are retired, or else on means-tested payments.
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That's ok, but I wouldn't label pensioners as 'living off the backs of working people', as mentioned above. Not by you, but by another poster.
If we agree that, then the figure reduces significantly.
 
TheBigShort said:
I'm still going with the 50% of tax dollars, but I stand to be corrected.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States
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I was wrong. It looks like it's less than 16%, coming in at just under 14.5%.
You are talking about the discretionary federal budget but don't worry, getting that sort of thing wrong proves that you are in fact a socialist ;) :p

TheBigShort said:
So after all this time, I'm...um...I'm...not a socialist? :(
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See above.

TheBigShort said:
According to Purple only 30% of tax payers are net contributors?
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According to detailed figures posted on this site.

TheBigShort said:
That's ok, but I wouldn't label pensioners as 'living off the backs of working people', as mentioned above.
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What about that thin end of the wedge which never works and scams the system; when they retire they get a pension. Do they stop living off other people once they retire? I know the high and mighty become immune to any accountability and are beyond the law once they retire so I suppose it's only fair if the same thing applies to welfare cheats.
 
Purple said:
Like we've already gone way too far to the left and in doing so locked in a cycle of poverty, low opportunity, reduced social advancement and a State sector with a deep rooted culture of hostile defensiveness, inefficiency and mediocrity which lets down the citizens of this country, particularly those who need help the most.

Like my children would be better off leaving.

Depressed and angry.
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I hear you. The priority in our house is to raise educated and skilled children. I fully expect one or all of them to emigrate and I would probably encourage it. We may well retire somewhere decent too.
 
Purple said:
I was wrong. It looks like it's less than 16%, coming in at just under 14.5%.
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Fair enough I will give you that one.:cool: It's still a humongous amount relative to any other country. I can only assume that such levels of spending on military means that they have plans to use it.

Purple said:
What about that thin end of the wedge which never works and scams the system; when they retire they get a pension. Do they stop living off other people once they retire? I know the high and mighty become immune to any accountability and are beyond the law once they retire so I suppose it's only fair if the same thing applies to welfare cheats.
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Welfare cheats are the thin end of the wedge. So pensioners who never worked are also the thin end of the wedge.
Most people work, occasionally becoming unemployed, but in the main, most people work.
 
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