Good article by Rory Gillen on Bitcoin

SBarrett said:
If you had all the bitcoin in the world but weren't allowed to sell it, would you make a return?

If you invest in equities, bonds, cash or property you would.
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Not if you weren't allowed sell them, as per the conditions imposed above on bitcoin.
 
Is the average individual in those countries responsible for defaulted US loans ? Most likely they never took a loan and are getting raised taxes , capital controls , hyperinflation etc.

You can just as easily easily say no one will buy a failed company's stock or a bankrupt country's bond.

Andreas Antonopoulos has nice material online to get informed on Bitcoin for whoever is interested.
 
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Wondering if anyone has any insight into CGT arising as a result of a cryptocurrency transactions. If I was to buy Bitcoin using my euro bank account and subsequently sell and make a gain I understand that CGT would be due.

Would the same be applicable if I was to purchase say Etherium using Bitcoins and subsequently make a gain. In essence if you remain in crypto world does it eliminate any CGT due ?
 
Pugmister said:
In essence if you remain in crypto world does it eliminate any CGT due ?
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While im not able to give tax advice, many seem to agree to this gloabally. Meantime you don't convert to FIAT , no taxes are due.

What happens though if you buy goods with bitcoin? Could be groceries with a bitcoin card or it could be a car from a private seller.

Also, someone that's getting paid in Bitcoin for goods or services should be subject to tax, calculating the crypto income in fiat daily and keeping accounts that way.
 
So irrespective of how the coin upon which the gain was made was purchased, once you convert to FIAT a taxable event occurs which will trigger CGT ?

Its a bit of minefield trying to get your head around this at times. Im hoping to purchase some coins in the coming weeks which can only be purchased via Bitcoin so it got me thinking of such a scenario.
 
Another example, someone from Greece was saying that if you cannot prove / verify how much you spent purchasing the asset (bitcoin, altcoin etc) the Greek tax office will count the whole amount it is sold for as capital gains.
Of course, this is general legislation, not crypto specific, just the closest thing they were finding.

No-one knows exactly what to do.
 
A banker calling cryptocurrencies a fraud, sure, I would want to protect my business's future too if I were on his shoes.
Funny how JP is investing in blockchain technology on the side... not to mention other Wall Street interest in crypto.

Yes you can lose all your money in crypto, same as in all investments. It all comes down to don't invest what you cant afford to lose, risk - reward ratio etc.
For us Irish here, it is like stock picking. You might find a company you like, you are not going to put all your money on it, cause it might fail.

For holding crypto, DO NOT leave it on the exchanges or online wallets! Buy a hardware wallet ( trezor, ledger nano s , etc ) , read their instructions / blog, keep your backup safe.
 
The primary driver behind Bitcoin's value is a growing realisation, triggered by the 2008 financial crisis, that fiat currencies are vulnerable in a way that Bitcoin is not.

1. Bitcoin is not controlled by any government requiring re-election
2. Bitcoin is finite

Every fiat currency in the world is now pegged to one of the 5 reserve currencies (US dollar, Euro, Yen, Swiss Franc, Sterling).

When the next financial crisis hits, where do these currencies go?

Interest rates are already < 1%. Quantitive Easing has been all but exhausted. So what's left?

The only way to keep the rabble off the streets will be to starting sprinkling €500 notes from ECB helicopters.

When that happens, Bitcoin takes over.

Note: CGT is due on Bitcoin gains even if you never convert back to fiat. If you bought BTC at €100, and its now worth €1,000, and you use it to buy something, a CGT liability arises.
 
SBarrett said:
If you had all the bitcoin in the world but weren't allowed to sell it, would you make a return?
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Bitcoin is a currency. You can buy things with it. You don't have to sell it. Do you have to sell dollars to realise practical value from them?

SBarrett said:
If you invest in equities, bonds, cash or property you would. Even with deposit interest rates as low as they are, you would still make your money back, it would just take a longer period of time. With bitcoin, gold and other commodities, it is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it and there's no regular return from it.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
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Equities, bonds, currency and property are only worth what people are willing to pay for them.
 
Jim2007 said:
The exact same thing as with the tulips - believe! And just like the tulips, if that belief is shattered it will rapidly loose value. You cannot invest in anything who's value is based on fear and greed. You can speculate, but then you should recognize it, for what it is.
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What is it you think will shatter belief in Bitcoin? Bitcoin has been around since 2009. In that time, we've had the Mt. Gox failure, Silk Road, the New York Bitcoin licensing debacle, the PBOC crackdown on exchanges, numerous hard and soft forks and an endless and fractious debate about scaling.

And still, Bitcoin's value continues to grow exponentially.

Conversely, your €10 note in your back pocket buys you about half of what it could buy you in 2009.
 
Pugmister said:
Wondering if anyone has any insight into CGT arising as a result of a cryptocurrency transactions. If I was to buy Bitcoin using my euro bank account and subsequently sell and make a gain I understand that CGT would be due.

Would the same be applicable if I was to purchase say Etherium using Bitcoins and subsequently make a gain. In essence if you remain in crypto world does it eliminate any CGT due ?
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There is no way to avoid CGT when speculating on Bitcoin.

And here's the more important point: that isn't what Bitcoin is for.
 
goosebump said:
The primary driver behind Bitcoin's value is a growing realisation, triggered by the 2008 financial crisis, that fiat currencies are vulnerable in a way that Bitcoin is not.

1. Bitcoin is not controlled by any government requiring re-election
2. Bitcoin is finite

Every fiat currency in the world is now pegged to one of the 5 reserve currencies (US dollar, Euro, Yen, Swiss Franc, Sterling).

When the next financial crisis hits, where do these currencies go?

Interest rates are already < 1%. Quantitive Easing has been all but exhausted. So what's left?

The only way to keep the rabble off the streets will be to starting sprinkling €500 notes from ECB helicopters.

When that happens, Bitcoin takes over.

Note: CGT is due on Bitcoin gains even if you never convert back to fiat. If you bought BTC at €100, and its now worth €1,000, and you use it to buy something, a CGT liability arises.
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Who does control Bitcoin? How secure is it?
 
goosebump said:
Equities, bonds, currency and property are only worth what people are willing to pay for them.
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You can get a return from them. If you owned a property and the value went to zero, you can still get your money back through rental income. The same can't happen with bitcoin/ gold.

Bitcoin may be suitable if you speculate but I believe there are better ways to invest money.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 
"For we walk by faith, not by sight." 2 Corinthians.

"The faithful man will prosper with blessings, but whoever is in a hurry to get rich will not escape punishment." Proverbs.
 
SBarrett said:
If you owned a property and the value went to zero, you can still get your money back through rental income.
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That doesn't make sense, who would pay rent to live in a property that's worth zero? They would buy it, for zero, and live in it for free.

Bitcoin is not a get-rich-quick scheme, although there are countless cryptocurrencies that are just that.
 
I have bought some bitcoin, small amount, to try understand it more so than anything.
It reminds me of when I first heard about FB. I thought it was a fad, won't last.
Then all these other social media platforms followed, and Twitter in particular etc.
There is a lot I don't understand about it, but the digital age is upon us, paper and coin currencies will be affected the same way as the print media is affected by the internet (unless nuclear war starts then who knows what will happen). Paper and coin will be still be around for a while yet but no-one will use them.
 
ant dee said:
That doesn't make sense, who would pay rent to live in a property that's worth zero? They would buy it, for zero, and live in it for free.

Bitcoin is not a get-rich-quick scheme, although there are countless cryptocurrencies that are just that.
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Ok, you bought a 1 bed apt for €500,000 during the Celtic Tiger and the value went down to €200,000 and stayed there. You would make your money back through rental income over a period of time. It may be a long period of time but you will make your money back. Same applies to dividend income and interest.

If you bought €500,000 worth of Bitcoin/ gold and it fell to €200,000 and stayed there, that's it, you have a €300,000 loss.

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 
SBarrett said:
Ok, you bought a 1 bed apt for €500,000 during the Celtic Tiger and the value went down to €200,000 and stayed there. You
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You would have to analyze why the value collapsed so much? Too many 1 bed apts with no-one to rent it too?

If bitcoin or gold price collapses in similar fashion there will be a reason for it, perhaps not enough people willing to trade with it?

It's the same thing.

I understand the point you are making, but the point about bitcoin is no-one knows at this stage is it overvalued or undervalued. I could take a guess, but that would be pure speculation. The important factor, in my opinion is, the blockchain technology. While I hear about the apparent flaws of bitcoin, I never hear a negative thing about blockchain technology. Instead, blockchain technology to me, would appear to be on the cusp of becoming mainstream.
When it does, all products and services that adopt to this technology will steal a march on competitors that haven't adopted the technology.
Bitcoin has stolen the march on its competitors, so far. In turn, providing value.
 
I know nothing about this, how do you buy bitcoins? And is there an exchange rate for purchasing from different currencies?
 
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