Do children inherit their parent's social housing?

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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I am reading the Dublin City Council Housing Allocation Scheme and this astonishes me.


"1.5 Succession to Tenancy

Where death or departure of a tenant takes place, the tenancy will normally be given to a surviving spouse/partner, provided:

· such spouse/partner has been resident in the dwelling for a continuous period of at least two years immediately prior to the death/departure of the tenant.

On the death or departure of both parents the tenancy will normally be given to a son or daughter, irrespective of number in the household, provided

· he/she has been living in the dwelling for at least two years immediately prior to the death or departure of the tenant



However, departure of the tenant by way of purchasing or providing own accommodation will, not be grounds for a child over 18 years to remain in the dwelling and apply for succession.



A person other than a spouse, partner, son or daughter who has resided in the dwelling for at least fiveyears immediately prior to the death or departure of the tenant may be allowed to succeed where:

· there is no spouse, partner, son or daughter eligible to succeed and

· where the dwelling size is appropriate to his/her needs."


So a couple with three children get allocated a 3 bed house.
The children leave
The father dies
The mother gets to stay in a three bed house on her own.
One of the children moves back in.
The mother dies.
The child gets the house irrespective of their housing needs!!!

I had heard of a case recently in Ringsend where a single man with a very good salary had moved back in with his mother so that he would get the house. I had assumed it was just an urban myth.

 
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Cork City Council's Allocation Scheme seems more fit for purpose:


9.3 In cases where all of the tenants of a dwelling provided by Cork City Council
have died or vacated the dwelling, Cork City Council shall consider an
application for a tenancy from the following:

(a) a person who has continued to reside in the dwelling throughout his
lifetime and who has been assessed for rent purposes, or,
(b) a person who having left the dwelling for a period, has resided in the
dwelling with the tenant with the permission of Cork City Council for
a period of at least 2 years prior to the death or departure of the tenant.

Where there are two or more surviving persons who meet the criteria at (a) or
(b) above, a joint tenancy may be granted by Cork City Council.
 
Yes it happens Brendan. My sil got it when my mil passed away. I was shocked too by what happened.
 
I'm shocked that your shocked by this Brendan!

Perhaps it's not so obvious in the city but in my part of rural Ireland I know of several instances of this happening.
 
As Delboy says not remotely uncommon in my part of rural Ireland either.

My MIL moved to nursing home and subsequently died after a few years, her sons automatically stayed on in property until one died and then the remaining one was there until his death. Now that was a house that reared 5 children and in theory he could have been moved to a smaller property when on his own but there are no smaller council properties in rural Ireland, no apartment blocks with single occupancy or even double occupancy units.

That particular house has since been totally revamped by Council and still lies empty at least a year later, several offers have been made on it to people but today's expectations of suitable space are very different to my in laws days and those offered have declined it on the basis of being too small for a family. No one these days is prepared to have a kitchen that is smaller than most utility rooms and just 2 bedrooms so the house lies empty.

So while the ideal would be that there was other suitable housing stock of correct size available in the locality to move people too what are the chances of this!
 
Monbretia said:
My MIL moved to nursing home and subsequently died after a few years, her sons automatically stayed on in property until one died and then the remaining one was there until his death.
Click to expand...

After the tenant dies, the children or other residents should take their place on the housing list.

In the particular case you describe, it would have made sense to leave the two adult sons there. There would have been little point in moving them out just to leave the house empty.

But three bed houses in the cities are in very short supply. And the children should not "inherit" them giving them priority over people who may have much greater housing needs.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
After the tenant dies, the children or other residents should take their place on the housing list.

In the particular case you describe, it would have made sense to leave the two adult sons there. There would have been little point in moving them out just to leave the house empty.

But three bed houses in the cities are in very short supply. And the children should not "inherit" them giving them priority over people who may have much greater housing needs.

Brendan
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The real kick is that it is not income related. You can be a single person earning €150,000 a year and have a 3 bedroom council house.

This is a great little country!
 
But isn't the rent determined by how much you can afford to pay, does that not act as a form of mean testing?
 
Surely a person earning 150,000 a year or indeed 80,000 a year wouldn't have a council house????? I can't believe that.
 
Tebbit said:
Surely a person earning 150,000 a year or indeed 80,000 a year wouldn't have a council house????? I can't believe that.
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You donn't get kicked out so in theory, yes you could have grown up there and now be on a good salary and still have the council house.
I'd say it's rare down the country and slightly less rare in the cities. But it is possible
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I am reading the Dublin City Council Housing Allocation Scheme and this astonishes me.


"1.5 Succession to Tenancy

Where death or departure of a tenant takes place, the tenancy will normally be given to a surviving spouse/partner, provided:

· such spouse/partner has been resident in the dwelling for a continuous period of at least two years immediately prior to the death/departure of the tenant.

On the death or departure of both parents the tenancy will normally be given to a son or daughter, irrespective of number in the household, provided

· he/she has been living in the dwelling for at least two years immediately prior to the death or departure of the tenant



However, departure of the tenant by way of purchasing or providing own accommodation will, not be grounds for a child over 18 years to remain in the dwelling and apply for succession.



A person other than a spouse, partner, son or daughter who has resided in the dwelling for at least fiveyears immediately prior to the death or departure of the tenant may be allowed to succeed where:

· there is no spouse, partner, son or daughter eligible to succeed and

· where the dwelling size is appropriate to his/her needs."


So a couple with three children get allocated a 3 bed house.
The children leave
The father dies
The mother gets to stay in a three bed house on her own.
One of the children moves back in.
The mother dies.
The child gets the house irrespective of their housing needs!!!
Click to expand...


Hi Brendan, re underlined, BOLD (my emphasis)

Actually no, they don't.
If you had cared to detail fully the provision for housing succession, you would have noted the following


In all cases of claims for succession to tenancy it will be necessary that the applicant(s) have been included in the family household details for rent assessment purposes for the requisite period(s) as outlined above. No application will be considered where this condition is not complied with.

In all cases, there must be no alternative suitable accommodation available to the applicant(s) for succession of tenancy.

Had this provision been detailed it may have saved alot of time.
For instance, my near perpetual unanswered question of "where does the evicted tenant go?"
As it transpires, succession of housing only occurs when there is no alternative suitable accommodation. This is typical in the midst of a housing crisis.



 
TheBigShort said:
For instance, my near perpetual unanswered question of "where does the evicted tenant go?"
Click to expand...

Where does anyone who doesn't have a home go?

They rent elsewhere!
And if they are not working that should be elsewhere in the country.

But this would all be solved if all social housing leases were for 5 years only. The social housing would be a lotto win for the "tenants" at the expense of the taxpayer and those who pay for their own housing.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Where does anyone who doesn't have a home go?

They rent elsewhere!
And if they are not working that should be elsewhere in the country.
Click to expand...

Great, so a 19yr old second yr student at Trinity college, whose mother (single) passed away, and who works part-time in a coffee house, serving you coffee some mornings on your way to work, can look forward to being evicted to god only knows where!
- I suppose the studies can just take a back seat then?
 
Absolutely

What does any 19 year old who wants to study in Trinity do? I am not up to date on Student Accommodation, but I presume that Dublin City Council does not provide them with a three bed house to live on their own.

You might prefer to prioritise a 19 year old TCD student, but I would prefer to take a family out of a hotel and put them in the house instead.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I presume that Dublin City Council does not provide them with a three bed house to live on their own.
Click to expand...

In the absence of alternative suitable accommodation, eh, yes they will. Probably something to do with prioritizing the person over accommodation, rather than the accommodation over the person.

Brendan Burgess said:
You might prefer to prioritise a 19 year old TCD student, but I would prefer to take a family out of a hotel and put them in the house instead.
Click to expand...

Of course, lets hope the homeless family are not one of those families who object to interior decoration however, right?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...gibility-due-to-mothers-choices-35279162.html

Otherwise we will end up with a homeless family and a homeless 19yr old - for no good reason other than the ability to count to one, two, three bedrooms!

Here is a US based article relating to resolving the homeless interior design issue.

http://www.upworthy.com/a-secret-weapon-in-fighting-homelessness-interior-designers-really
 
TheBigShort said:
In all cases, there must be no alternative suitable accommodation available to the applicant(s) for succession of tenancy.
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Who decides what constitutes "suitable accommodation"?
"Possession is nine tenths of the law" and all that.
 
TheBigShort said:
Exactly, think of the arguments, protests, appeals etc. A right sorry mess trying to move people around.
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Indeed. We will have to change legislation before we can change policy but in the interests of a socially just society we should do so. It is damaging to the fabric of society to see people exploiting their fellow citizens like that.

I'm glad to see that you agree that the "In all cases there must be no suitable alternative accommodation available" clause is nonsense and, as Brendan and others have pointed out, it is the norm for people to inherit their parents social house.
 
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