What's the average treatment time allowed now for G.P. visits?

[Up Rovers]

Don't want the thread to break the posting guidelines by discussing medical matters but just wondering generally how much time people are allowed for their visits to G.P.s these days?

I've noticed since Covid that because they are under pressure and there's a shortage of G.P.s they seem to be rushing people in and out a lot quicker. A few friends have complained that they are lucky if they get 10 minutes to their visit even though they are paying €70 or more. We're led to believe that they are so busy that they don't want people making unnecessary appointments but even if you do go along to them they rush people in and out.

I've read online that practices in the U.K. allow one item to be discussed per visit and that a second appointment is necessary to discuss more complaints which seems mad. So if you go along for a repeat prescription do you have to make another appointment to have your blood pressure checked?

I was speaking to someone recently who told me that their G.P. practice had been taken over by a large U.K. organisation and visits are timed to an exact 10 minutes. If they go over that time the secretaries knock on the door to move things along. The doctors don't approve of this rule and will sometimes continue discussing the medical problem.

Feel sorry for anyone who say might be suffering from depression and needs to have a chat but are rushed in and out.

 

[arbitron]

10 mins or 15 mins are standard now. These are notional times because some visits take 5 minutes and others will run over.

1 issue per visit is the norm because otherwise you would have people coming in with long lists and you could be there all day.

You can book a double visit if needed.

People hate waiting and they love to chat. The time has to be managed so the service keeps moving.

 

[mathepac]

Yes, imposed rigourously in my GP's practice, a single issue per visit. "Doc, I've broken both me legs." "Right so, I'll fix one today and come back with the other tomorrow." Sorry

He now has a practice nurse who does injections, general obs, wound dressings, blood & urine samples, etc. I don't know how many other small country practices got extra nurses, but the HSE seem to be turning as many as possible into Primary Care Centres.

 

[Up Rovers]

Yes, imposed rigourously in my GP's practice, a single issue per visit. "Doc, I've broken both me legs." "Right so, I'll fix one today and come back with the other tomorrow." Sorry

That is a very good example of how stupid that rule is. Perhaps its just me but €70 to perhaps ask one quick question and get a possible yes/no answer is disgraceful.

 

[arbitron]

It is never "€70 to perhaps ask one quick question and get a possible yes/no answer". That money pays for the doctor, the receptionists, practice manager, equipment, premises, utilities, and so on.

People want GPs to be available immediately, friendly, professional, no delays but giving them as much time as they want, patient, good communicators, fully trained, up to date on all conditions and medications, etc. etc.... but also cheap...?

The moment a doctor engages with you they have a duty of care that is governed by law and by a professional regulator.

Years of education and experience make interactions seem simple. That's the case for any skilled job and you are charged accordingly because if something goes wrong then the consequences can be devastating for all involved.

 

[Leo]

That is a very good example of how stupid that rule is. Perhaps its just me but €70 to perhaps ask one quick question and get a possible yes/no answer is disgraceful.

Is it? If you break both your legs, your first thought is to look for a GP appointment?

 

[Salvadore]

For years now, people have been encouraged to go to their GP as a means of reducing the burden on A&E departments in hospitals.

Now it seems that this alternative is itself stretched to the point where some other source of care is needed.

It’s a concerning trend.

 

[Purple]

It is never "€70 to perhaps ask one quick question and get a possible yes/no answer". That money pays for the doctor, the receptionists, practice manager, equipment, premises, utilities, and so on.

No it doesn't. In a large practice most of that is paid for by the State.

People want GPs to be available immediately, friendly, professional, no delays but giving them as much time as they want, patient, good communicators, fully trained, up to date on all conditions and medications, etc. etc.... but also cheap...?

Or just good value.

The moment a doctor engages with you they have a duty of care that is governed by law and by a professional regulator.

Yea, kind of but not really.

Years of education and experience make interactions seem simple.

Most of it is simple, the odd time it's complicated and most of those times you will be sent to a specialist.

That's the case for any skilled job and you are charged accordingly because if something goes wrong then the consequences can be devastating for all involved.

True.

 

[Purple]

Don't want the thread to break the posting guidelines by discussing medical matters but just wondering generally how much time people are allowed for their visits to G.P.s these days?

13.7 minutes.
The average fee is €53. That works out at €232 an hour.
The average GMS income per GP is €170,000 a year after costs (staff, overheads etc). Basically the GMS covers all of their costs and gives them a personal income of €170,000 a year. Their private income is on top of that.
During Covid they would have made an additional €100,000 to €150,000 on top of that. I used to be married to a GP. She works hard and has a large practice and her income would be above average.

There are around 2,500 GP's in Ireland but 4,500 doctors working in general practice. You have to be a qualified GP to have a GMS list but you can be a "generalist" (have no specialist training) and work for a GP in a larger practice. Only one GP in the practice has to actually be qualified as a GP.
An established GP running their own practice will earn between €250,000 and €400,000 a year.

 

[Salvadore]

13.7 minutes.
The average fee is €53. That works out at €232 an hour.
The average GMS income per GP is €170,000 a year after costs (staff, overheads etc). Basically the GMS covers all of their costs and gives them a personal income of €170,000 a year. Their private income is on top of that.
During Covid they would have made an additional €100,000 to €150,000 on top of that. I used to me married to a GP. She works hard and has a large practice and her income would be above average.

There are around 2,500 GP's in Ireland but 4,500 doctors working in general practice. You have to be a qualified GP to have a GMS list but you can be a "generalist" (have no specialist training) and work for a GP in a larger practice. Only one GP in the practice has to actually be qualified as a GP.
An established GP running their own practice will earn between €250,000 and €400,000 a year.

Nice money but as you’ve said - hard work.

 

[Purple]

Nice money but as you’ve said - hard work.

So is bricklaying.

 

[arbitron]

No it doesn't. In a large practice most of that is paid for by the State.

Different practices have different costs and a different proportion of private/GMS. Many would not be viable if they depended on GMS alone.

Yea, kind of but not really.

Vicky Pollard is only trotting after you.

Most of it is simple, the odd time it's complicated and most of those times you will be sent to a specialist.

If most of it is simple and GPs earn such huge wages, I wonder why other folk spend 10+ years in gruelling training to do hospital specialties when GP is such a cushy number. Mystery.

So is bricklaying.

Despite having worked at both jobs, I'm no wiser as to the point you're making.

 

[Purple]

Different practices have different costs and a different proportion of private/GMS. Many would not be viable if they depended on GMS alone.

Agreed, we can only talk about averages.

Vicky Pollard is only trotting after you.

I hope she's not close behind.

If most of it is simple and GPs earn such huge wages, I wonder why other folk spend 10+ years in gruelling training to do hospital specialties when GP is such a cushy number. Mystery.

Gruelling? Is there a Vicky Pollard equivalent I can reference in relation to hyperbole?
Where did I say it was a cushy number? Lot's of simple jobs are stressful and demanding.

I'm just quoting the data that's available. I can't speak to the motives people have within their chosen industry or sector. Maybe they stood outside the Consultants car park in the Mater Private and saw the Porches, Ferraris, Bentley's and the odd Aston Martin being driven in and said "I'd like a slice of that cake". In the end it's just a job and doctors, just like everyone else, are motivated by money.

Despite having worked at both jobs, I'm no wiser as to the point you're making.

Have you? Really?
My point is that there are lots of hard jobs, way harder and more dangerous than anything within the healthcare sector, which are not nearly as well paid. You'll know that, having spent 4 years training as a bricklayer before becoming a doctor (or was it the other way around?).

 

[thedaddyman]

Current GP I go to charges €65 per visit. it's 2 issues per visit and I get why they want to limit the time as no doubt some people go "whilst I just have you". They book people in on a 15 min basis but as the day goes on, the liklihood is that times slip, unless there are no shows which always annoys me.

Having said that, most GP's make allowances for their patients, certainly when I used to take my elderly parents in, it sometimes ran over and there was never an issue.

Bear in mind when considering fees and income, that there is also time spent by the doctor in paperwork and ongoing training and developement,

 

[Firefly]

You have to be a qualified GP to have a GMS list but you can be a "generalist" (have no specialist training) and work for a GP in a larger practice. Only one GP in the practice has to actually be qualified as a GP.

I didn't know that!

 

[Purple]

I didn't know that!

Yes, that's where the lie continuously trotted out by GP's about long working hours and lack of resourced comes from. It's up there with the lie they tell about how many medical graduates emigrate after graduation. Emigration is leaving ones own country, the vast majority of graduates who leave are actually returning to their own country.

 

[tallpaul]

I have often said that being a GP must be one of the worst highly paid jobs in the world: 8-9 hours a day, EVERY DAY, of interacting with moaning/sick/depressed/overanxious parents of children/hypochondriac people must be mentally very draining.

I would have thought that the number of GP's needing help themselves at some stage must be quite high.

 

[Leo]

EVERY DAY, of interacting with moaning/sick/depressed/overanxious parents of children/hypochondriac people must be mentally very draining.

Some people like interacting with people and helping many of them lead better lives.

 

[Purple]

I have often said that being a GP must be one of the worst highly paid jobs in the world: 8-9 hours a day, EVERY DAY, of interacting with moaning/sick/depressed/overanxious parents of children/hypochondriac people must be mentally very draining.

I would have thought that the number of GP's needing help themselves at some stage must be quite high.

I don't think there's a GP in Ireland who spends 8-9 hours a day, seven days a week, seeing patients.

Even the GP's themselves, no strangers to hyperbole, claim that they work an average of almost 50 hours a week but that includes a considerable amount of paperwork. That's the 2500 actual GP's, not the additional 2000 doctors who work in general practice. If what the GP's say is true, and I seriously doubt it given how liberal doctors are with the facts, then the other 2000 doctors are only working around 17 hours a week.

I agree that it must be mentally draining.

 

[cremeegg]

My GP has a paper spinner in his drawer. Its got three outcomes, antibiotic, pain killer, referral. He spins the spinner and you get what you get.