Re: Planning objections
I think maybe galwaytt meant to say "appeal" instead of "object"
Thats spot on.
I think maybe galwaytt meant to say "appeal" instead of "object"
What are valid grounds for objecting to a planning application?
- Thread starter waom
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Re: Planning objections
So why come here for more then?
We agree on this. OP should therefore not complain about the cost of employing an architect.
Re: Planning objections
I may not have been clear enough in earlier postings.
1. Did discuss with neighbours, who were not interested in taking my views on board (as is their right). In any case, unless they withdrew the application, I was advised that there was no procedure for planning authority to take into account post application discussions between the parties. I would have preferred if they had consulted me before they put in the application (for the sake of good neighbourliness if not good planning practice).
2. In my original request I was looking for advice on grounds to make objection. I knew that, on grounds of privacy, overlooking, proximity, overshadowing etc., the proposed development would seriously affect me. What I did not know was whether these were valid reasons from the local authority's point of view. I obviously wanted to make the best case that I could. I had no interest in objecting for the sake of it - I wanted to be sure my reasons were valid (and would be taken into account by the planning authority). The architect presented a very professional case on my behalf, which I could have never done because of my lack of knowledge of the planning process.
3. The advice I received was that unless you object, planning authority may not see the problems from your perspective (it would be a bit like going to court without a solicitor and hoping the judge would always make the best decision)
I may not have been clear enough in earlier postings.
1. Did discuss with neighbours, who were not interested in taking my views on board (as is their right). In any case, unless they withdrew the application, I was advised that there was no procedure for planning authority to take into account post application discussions between the parties. I would have preferred if they had consulted me before they put in the application (for the sake of good neighbourliness if not good planning practice).
2. In my original request I was looking for advice on grounds to make objection. I knew that, on grounds of privacy, overlooking, proximity, overshadowing etc., the proposed development would seriously affect me. What I did not know was whether these were valid reasons from the local authority's point of view. I obviously wanted to make the best case that I could. I had no interest in objecting for the sake of it - I wanted to be sure my reasons were valid (and would be taken into account by the planning authority). The architect presented a very professional case on my behalf, which I could have never done because of my lack of knowledge of the planning process.
3. The advice I received was that unless you object, planning authority may not see the problems from your perspective (it would be a bit like going to court without a solicitor and hoping the judge would always make the best decision)
Re: Planning objections
Even if he did mean appeal, you cannot appeal unless you have 1st made an objection. In other words, if you sit back and wait for the decision to be made before doing anything, it's too late.
Even if he did mean appeal, you cannot appeal unless you have 1st made an objection. In other words, if you sit back and wait for the decision to be made before doing anything, it's too late.
Re: Planning objections
Apologies - I misread galwaytt's post and what you have posted above is right of course
Re: Planning objections
mmm, I see what you mean by appeal vs. object.
Whilst the applicant may appeal a decision (for whatever reaason), surely an affected party (like this case) can also 'appeal' the decision. I dunno, I'm just presuming it's a two-way thing...........??
mmm, I see what you mean by appeal vs. object.
Whilst the applicant may appeal a decision (for whatever reaason), surely an affected party (like this case) can also 'appeal' the decision. I dunno, I'm just presuming it's a two-way thing...........??
Re: Planning objections
..actually, just found a snippet on the Bord Pleanala site.
Because the OP is an affected party, by dint of adjoining property, he can appeal in the 30 day period, even if he hasn't made an objection inside the original (no other 3rd party could, though. See text here;
"2. Who may appeal?
· An applicant for planning permission (first party), and
· any other person, body or interested group etc. who made submissions or observations in writing to the planning authority in relation to the planning application in accordance with permission regulations (third party). There are two exceptions to the requirement to have made prior submissions or observations: -
(1) where a prescribed body was entitled to be notified of a planning application by the planning authority and was not notified in accordance with law, the body may lodge an appeal against the decision of the planning authority without having made submissions or observations on the planning application.
(2) A person with an interest in land adjoining the application site (e.g. a landowner/occupier)may apply to the Board for leave to appeal the decision of the planning authority (see question 29)."
..actually, just found a snippet on the Bord Pleanala site.
Because the OP is an affected party, by dint of adjoining property, he can appeal in the 30 day period, even if he hasn't made an objection inside the original (no other 3rd party could, though. See text here;
"2. Who may appeal?
· An applicant for planning permission (first party), and
· any other person, body or interested group etc. who made submissions or observations in writing to the planning authority in relation to the planning application in accordance with permission regulations (third party). There are two exceptions to the requirement to have made prior submissions or observations: -
(1) where a prescribed body was entitled to be notified of a planning application by the planning authority and was not notified in accordance with law, the body may lodge an appeal against the decision of the planning authority without having made submissions or observations on the planning application.
(2) A person with an interest in land adjoining the application site (e.g. a landowner/occupier)may apply to the Board for leave to appeal the decision of the planning authority (see question 29)."
Re: Planning objections
A somewhat doubtful statement. There are many cases where an application will be passed by the local planning department only to be denied permission by bord pleanala on appeal. If you don't submit objections at the local planning stage then bord pleanala will never get to have their say.
My experience is that an bord pleanala has a fairly rigorous decision making process but the same can not be said for the local authorities. Or at least not SDCC.
A somewhat doubtful statement. There are many cases where an application will be passed by the local planning department only to be denied permission by bord pleanala on appeal. If you don't submit objections at the local planning stage then bord pleanala will never get to have their say.
My experience is that an bord pleanala has a fairly rigorous decision making process but the same can not be said for the local authorities. Or at least not SDCC.
Re: Planning objections
From my experience, privacy/overlooking/disruption of views/negative impact of house value etc are not valid grounds for objection. A neighbour in my estate recently built a house in his garden. His neighbour, situated on lower ground meaning the new house was directly over looking his, submitted an objection outlining the above reasons along with light deprivation.
Apparently you are not entitled to a view, or a particular house value. The plans had to be altered so any upstairs windows overlooking the house on lower ground had to be frosted glass, taking care of the privacy/overlooking aspect. Light deprivation is a valid concern however the planners, in this particular case, deemed the new house to be far enough away.
From my experience, privacy/overlooking/disruption of views/negative impact of house value etc are not valid grounds for objection. A neighbour in my estate recently built a house in his garden. His neighbour, situated on lower ground meaning the new house was directly over looking his, submitted an objection outlining the above reasons along with light deprivation.
Apparently you are not entitled to a view, or a particular house value. The plans had to be altered so any upstairs windows overlooking the house on lower ground had to be frosted glass, taking care of the privacy/overlooking aspect. Light deprivation is a valid concern however the planners, in this particular case, deemed the new house to be far enough away.
Re: Planning objections
So you really mean that overlooking is a valid reason to object.
There is no guarantee that the clause about frosted glass would have been inserted into the permission had the neighbour not objected and brought the issue of overlooking to the attention of local authorities as they only go by the drawings and do not carry out a site visit.
So you really mean that overlooking is a valid reason to object.
There is no guarantee that the clause about frosted glass would have been inserted into the permission had the neighbour not objected and brought the issue of overlooking to the attention of local authorities as they only go by the drawings and do not carry out a site visit.
Re: Planning objections
Not a legal person, but I think applying for leave to appeal means you first have to persude the Board to allow you to make an appeal. I suspect that you would have to have a very good case.
Not a legal person, but I think applying for leave to appeal means you first have to persude the Board to allow you to make an appeal. I suspect that you would have to have a very good case.
Re: Planning objections
You're right, it is a valid reason to object, what I meant was it's not a valid reason for permission to be refused. It may be different from county to county, but where I am the local plannng authority will visit the site.
You're right, it is a valid reason to object, what I meant was it's not a valid reason for permission to be refused. It may be different from county to county, but where I am the local plannng authority will visit the site.
Re: Planning objections
The normal criteria for an application for leave to appeal would involve 1 of 2 situations. The applicant for PP submitted revised or altered plans to the council when the 5 week period for objections was nearly up and where the neighbour was happy with the original plans and didnt object.
The other situation would be where, in the same scenario the neighbour is happy with the original plans and didnt object, but because of certain conditions attached to the grant of permission would alter the original proposal.
Yes indeed. I believe the stats show that the biggest percentage of applications for leave to appeal are rejected.
The normal criteria for an application for leave to appeal would involve 1 of 2 situations. The applicant for PP submitted revised or altered plans to the council when the 5 week period for objections was nearly up and where the neighbour was happy with the original plans and didnt object.
The other situation would be where, in the same scenario the neighbour is happy with the original plans and didnt object, but because of certain conditions attached to the grant of permission would alter the original proposal.
Re: Planning objections
I see what you mean: however, I presume leave to appeal means you only have to satisfy that you qualify to object under the rules (e.g. that you are the actual neighbouring property owner etc..), not the actual objection itself.
Once you satisfy that ground, you may object. No.??
I see what you mean: however, I presume leave to appeal means you only have to satisfy that you qualify to object under the rules (e.g. that you are the actual neighbouring property owner etc..), not the actual objection itself.
Once you satisfy that ground, you may object. No.??
Re: Planning objections
Having an interest in land adjoining the application site only gives you the right to request leave to appeal.
As per Nutty Nut's earlier clarification, the Board will only grant leave to appeal in specific circumstances.
Having an interest in land adjoining the application site only gives you the right to request leave to appeal.
As per Nutty Nut's earlier clarification, the Board will only grant leave to appeal in specific circumstances.
Re: Planning objections
No, see further down the same page you quoted, where the only case where it's considered is "...where the person shows that the decision of the planning authority to grant permission differs materially from the application because of the conditions imposed and the conditions imposed will materially affect his/her enjoyment of the land or reduce the value of the land."
In other words, say the local authority imposed some condition to the planning permision that iself materially affected a neighbouring property, then you can apply for leave to appeal. My guess this is exceptionally rare, and is only there to protect people from the highly unlikely event that one of the conditions imposed by the local authority adversly affected someone where the original application hadn't.
If you want to object to anything in the applkication itself, you have to do it before the initial deadline. This is very strictly enforced by the local authorities.
No, see further down the same page you quoted, where the only case where it's considered is "...where the person shows that the decision of the planning authority to grant permission differs materially from the application because of the conditions imposed and the conditions imposed will materially affect his/her enjoyment of the land or reduce the value of the land."
In other words, say the local authority imposed some condition to the planning permision that iself materially affected a neighbouring property, then you can apply for leave to appeal. My guess this is exceptionally rare, and is only there to protect people from the highly unlikely event that one of the conditions imposed by the local authority adversly affected someone where the original application hadn't.
If you want to object to anything in the applkication itself, you have to do it before the initial deadline. This is very strictly enforced by the local authorities.
Re: Planning objections
Some of these are valid grounds for objections, others aren't.
Privacy, overlooking, overshadowing are valid grounds.
Disruption of views, negative impact on house value aren't.
Objections, if they are accepted as valid, can be addressed either by refusing permission, or by imposing conditions (e.g. to reduce height of the building, using obscured glass on windows, removing windows etc.).
The system is well documented on the various local authority and An Bord Planala Web sites. It's worth looking at a few of these to get a feel for the way the system operates.
Personally, I think it's reasonably fair system in terms of procedure, though clearly not everyone's going to be happy with the decisions (they never are). It could be improved, though: for example, I believe that in the UK directly effected neighbours are contacted by the local authority to see if they have any objections, which is better than having to spot site notices and ads in papers.
Some of these are valid grounds for objections, others aren't.
Privacy, overlooking, overshadowing are valid grounds.
Disruption of views, negative impact on house value aren't.
Objections, if they are accepted as valid, can be addressed either by refusing permission, or by imposing conditions (e.g. to reduce height of the building, using obscured glass on windows, removing windows etc.).
The system is well documented on the various local authority and An Bord Planala Web sites. It's worth looking at a few of these to get a feel for the way the system operates.
Personally, I think it's reasonably fair system in terms of procedure, though clearly not everyone's going to be happy with the decisions (they never are). It could be improved, though: for example, I believe that in the UK directly effected neighbours are contacted by the local authority to see if they have any objections, which is better than having to spot site notices and ads in papers.
Just to cite a recent case which gives an insight to the way ABP deal with applications for leave to appeal.
About 18 months ago the Council granted PP for a hotel in a rural area. There were a few local objectors and they appealed the decision to ABP and their appeal was upheld. About 8 months ago another planning application for the hotel was made and there were no objections to the council.
I thought this very strange and had all these fanciful ideas going through my head that the locals had been given a sweetener. But what actually happened was they weren't aware of the second application having been made. The newspaper notice was in one of the local papers for the first application but in the Irish Times for the second application. The site notice for the first application was still up on the site and it was simply replaced with a new one and nobody spotted this. The locals genuinely did not know that there was a second application with the council.
Anyways, the council granted it and it was only then that the locals heard about it. They applied to ABP for leave to appeal but their application was rejected on the basis that they had not made their objections/submissions to the council within the specified time frame. Even though APB had refused permission just a few months beforehand for the hotel they were powerless to act on the second application and subsequent grant of permission as the proper procedures had not been followed by the locals.
Anyone looking to buy a site with full PP for a hotel?
About 18 months ago the Council granted PP for a hotel in a rural area. There were a few local objectors and they appealed the decision to ABP and their appeal was upheld. About 8 months ago another planning application for the hotel was made and there were no objections to the council.
I thought this very strange and had all these fanciful ideas going through my head that the locals had been given a sweetener. But what actually happened was they weren't aware of the second application having been made. The newspaper notice was in one of the local papers for the first application but in the Irish Times for the second application. The site notice for the first application was still up on the site and it was simply replaced with a new one and nobody spotted this. The locals genuinely did not know that there was a second application with the council.
Anyways, the council granted it and it was only then that the locals heard about it. They applied to ABP for leave to appeal but their application was rejected on the basis that they had not made their objections/submissions to the council within the specified time frame. Even though APB had refused permission just a few months beforehand for the hotel they were powerless to act on the second application and subsequent grant of permission as the proper procedures had not been followed by the locals.
Anyone looking to buy a site with full PP for a hotel?
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Re: Planning objections
Good point - I have heard that the deadline is missed by a lot of people. It is advertised as 5 weeks but is really 4 weeks and six days (the date the application is lodged is counted as a day). The objection must also be lodged before 4pm.
Good point - I have heard that the deadline is missed by a lot of people. It is advertised as 5 weeks but is really 4 weeks and six days (the date the application is lodged is counted as a day). The objection must also be lodged before 4pm.