Transferring a DBS Deferred Pension (and myself) abroad.

[Starbuck]

There's a similiar thread running on the Forum, but the difference here is I'm non-resident in Ireland (I left in late 2009) and have PR in an Asian country.

I have no intention of ever returning to Ireland.

I have a Deferred Pension there with three years to go to activation. It is a DBS.

Just last week I finally managed to extract a transfer value from my very unco-operative Trustees.
It turns out the fund is of sufficient size that I feel I can easily live off it here without difficulty.
I want to remove it from the grasp of Irish politicians, the inept control of my Trustees, and get it out of Irish Euros.

The UK has a wonderful regulated system to do this - called QROP's.
Ireland seems to have no definite rules for transfer overseas, but focuses on transfers between Irish funds.

Is there anyone out there who has ever done a transfer abroad, or knows how it can be done?

 

[LDFerguson]

A transfer from an Irish Occupational Pension Scheme to another country can be done, but you must satisfy Revenue that the receiving scheme is a comparable type of pension scheme. If you're not impressed with the scheme trustees, you could divert your queries to the scheme administrator / broker. They should also be able to let you know the requirements to transfer abroad.

If it's a DB scheme and you're close to retirement age, are you sure you're not taking a financial hit by taking a transfer value now?

 

[Starbuck]

Hi Liam. Yes I am taking a 'hit' by transferring - the hit is 20% according to the valuation they gave me. So be it, I don't want my money in Ireland any more as I believe I'll be in for a bigger hit later when the almost inevitable sovereign default occurs (or further Government confiscations occur).

The UK QROPs providors produce a list of UK Revenue Approved Pension Schemes. I presume at least some of these would prove acceptable to the Irish Pension Regulators???

 

[Baracuda]

Usually when a DB pension is revalued for transfer proposes the capitalization factor usually used is 9:1 i.e. it costs €9 to buy €1 of pension benefit but in the real world if you were to go to a life company and buy a similar type pension it would cost an average of €20 to buy €1 of pension benefit.

So when a member requests a transfer value from a DB pension scheme the actuary would use the above sum and if the scheme is in deficit would reduce the value by the same percentage after allowing for members benefits in payment. So while it may appear that the value is reduced by only 20% the reality is that you are getting less than 40% of the real value of your pension benefits!

So the transfer value usually represents very poor value. All that said however more people like yourself is looking at transfering out of DB scheme's as a result of recent Government policy and the fact that so many scheme's are underfunded and that trustees have little choice but either look for a higher level of funding from their member's in service or else reduce the promised benefits to its members both in service and pensioners.

 

[Starbuck]

Thanks for that Barracuda. The threats to my deferred DBS are multifold and overriding to the hit I will take on a transfer.
Here's a brief list:

1. Fund is in deficit - made worse by funding minima changes a year or two ago. Technically it is borderline, having once been one of the best performing DBS schemes in the country (pre-2008).

2. It is due for an audit in September, which it may well fail = End of scheme for deferrees like me.

3. If it is not actually wound up it may simply have benefits reduced (unless extra funding is made by current contributors, which is unlikely).

4. The company - who make a large contribution to the scheme - are in financial difficulty.

5. The Irish State is in financial difficulty and has already identified Irish Pensions as suitable for confiscation. I doubt there's much sympathy for the like of me back in Ireland, so further confiscation would be like stealing candy from a baby in the Governments view. Low hanging fruit.

6. Eurozone breakup looms. If Ireland leaves the Euro the new currency will be devalued overnight. How much do you think? Forty percent sounds about right! Ergo my DBS income will be cut by 40% in real terms. Same Same.

7. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. It wasn't always thus - ten years ago I'd have shuddered at the idea of withdrawing from the scheme - but not any more.

I'm not interested in buying an annuity.
Where I now live (Far East) there is a long tradition of company EPF's (Employee Provident Funds) where you get the whole lump in your hands on retirement and then you do as you please with it. There are no guarantees of income (DBS schemes are rare as hens teeth). Most people out here prefer it that way, and given what I see happening in Ireland I think guarantees are no longer worth the paper they're written on anyway. I'd prefer an EPF like my local colleagues here.
I'd prefer the lump.

How to arrange it is my burning issue.
I do know its possible.

(PS If you are right and more people are looking for transfers now, I say fair play to them. The confiscation of retirement savings was a big miscalculation that will backfire on the government with worse consequences in the long run).