Do you think we'd have Ryanair or Aircoach etc if Unions had their way back in the day when these companies were granted licences to operate out of here?
Thank you - Dunnes Stores.
- Thread starter Deiseblue
- Start date
Unions always oppose competition. If they didn't then they wouldn't be doing their job as it is not in the interest of the employees of a monopoly for that company or organisation to lose that monopolistic position. In that context I agree.
I totally agree, let them get back to doing what they were originally set up to do.....looking after workers rights. instead of grand standing and using every opportunity to get their faces on the newspapers and tv .
With Trade Union action prompting increased nursing posts & consultant posts in the HSE at competitive rates & with Dunnes suffering sustained commercial losses as a result of their refusal to interact with Unions & the Labour Court it would appear that the Unions are vigorously taking action on behalf of their members .
It also appears likely that pay restoration for Public Sector workers is high not only on the Union's agenda but on the Government's pre electoral agenda as well
The Bus unions seem determined not to see their members terms & conditions suffer by any mooted transfer of any members to the private sector & thankfully the Minister seems to be increasingly of the same view.
The promised collective bargaining legislation before the summer recess will also be welcomed by the Unions.
Oh & how could I forget the brilliant victory for the Glass pensioners !
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The trades unions through their own ineptitude are now fighting rearguard action. There are more non members of unions working now than almost ever. The unions must accept blame for such losses and are facing a fierce uphill battle to recover members. The unions are there through the support of the membership, they would want to remember this and represent workers for a change.
Of course the fact that they have blocked and stymied reform and attempts at making the health service run efficiently with the result that we have a grossly inefficient healthcare system. Our nearest neighbour’s NHS spends less per head or population than our HSE does but their service includes all GP and hospital visits, all medication and lots of services such as physiotherapy. If you are proud of your unions hand in that that then shame on you.
Why is it OK for Unions to ignore the Labour Court and their recommendations but it’s not OK for employers to do so?
So rather than paying off our debts or fixing any of the myriad of problems we have we should give pay increases to a sector which is still overpaid relative to OECD standards. I’d rather see the sick and vulnerable being looked after first but I accept that they are not on any Union’s agenda, despite their two-faced posturings.
There is no mooted transfer of any members to the private sector. There is a fledgling attempt, after 100 years, to run a small portion of one public service for the benefit of the public and not for the benefit of the people who work in it. This is Unions doing their job though; they always oppose fairness and openness and the public good.
As would any lobby group if everyone was forced to deal with them.
Yes, tens of millions of state money diverted from the sick and vulnerable into the failed private pension fund of a failed private company. That’s a great example of how Unions hurt this country.
If Unions were doing what they were set up to do they would be representing sex workers and the truly marginalised.
My great Uncle didn’t help set up the ICTU to take money from the poor and give it to safe middle income earners. People like him wanted to stop exploitation, not cause it.
The Dunnes strike is the first time I can remember in decades when the Union was doing what it is supposed to do. The reason so few people are members, outside of areas where Union membership is effectively a requirement, is that people see them for what they are and want no part of it.
I do agree , although the Unions here still thankfully retain the capacity to bring the country to a halt like France where Union membership density is only 1/4 of ours.
Hopefully the collective bargaining legislation will prove effective in recruiting more members , we lag sadly behind most EC countries where employers are required to both recognise & negotiate with Unions - given that fact it is surprising our Union density is so high.
Given the highly publicised recent Union successes in the ESB , Waterford Glass , the HSE & the fact that the FEMPI legislation is to be unwound & gradual pay restoration in the Public Sector seems to be a pre electoral runner I think that a huge amount of cross sectoral employees will reflect on the fact that Union membership can only benefit them & with legislation on the way soon they may very well be able to avail of Union membership where such Unions are recognised as negotiating entities.
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I confidently predict that Union membership will remain static at best, but more than likely, will continue to fall. Most people would not share your rose-tinted views of a grouping that can 'bring the country to a halt' in pursuit of their own self interests
I would respectfully disagree , as a Public Servant you must surely agree that your terms & conditions have been vastly improved over the long term (in spite of recent cutbacks which cutbacks seem likely to be ameliorated by an increasingly nervous Government )by the the fact that your employment is hugely unionised .
Union membership has indeed been somewhat static in recent decades as employers became increasingly aware that legislation ensures that they need not negotiate with Unions but hopefully with the long promised legislation on collective bargaining on the cusp of being delivered things should improve - from the Union viewpoint that is
.The fact that Unions have delivered huge successes in the ESB , the HSE & the Waterford Glass recently must surely ensure that employees view the protection & advantages afforded by Union membership in a positive light , it must be infuriating for large groups of non unionised employees to reflect on the benefits of those lucky enough to be unionised by the fact that they are denied the democratic right to have a Union negotiate on their behalf , the fact that employer groups are vehemently opposed to the forthcoming legislation can only be indicative of pro employee legislation - it should also be borne in mind that the current Government are being obliged to introduce such legislation by European Courts .
It seems to be a general given that in any employment whether in the private or public sector that you are better off in a Union as strength in numbers & a concerted negotiation platform is more capable of delivering results as well as delivering better pension and redundancy terms - so surely if forthcoming legislation makes it easier to join a Union then numbers should increase.
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If anybody thinks trades unions are not necessary, just have a look at some of the posts by non union members on this forum on different threads. I would rather have a union supporting me than fight alone. Also, I recognise that some rare employment is better off without union representation.
But, the unions must be visible in representing members.
But, the unions must be visible in representing members.
Gerry Canning
Registered User
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Quote { Oh & How could I forget the brilliant victory for the Glass Pensioners}
Please step back and review what happened in Waterford Glass.(I am working from memory)
1. Employees who had contributed for years to Pension Scheme in any organisation , would expect that their pension funds would be protected and their pension relatively safe.
(If pension funds are not protected we are all in danger in our older age)
2. From circa 2004? Government had signed up to EU wide protection of 80% of pension pot should private company fail.
3. When Waterford failed the Pensioners were left stranded.
4. Government ignored them.
5. I think SIPTU took the case up, and funded case up to Europe.
(there is no way any private citizen could have funded this)
So what this Union has done is too protect Pension funds for Union and non union members, long after anyone remembers it was the Union that fought for that protection.
If you think back it was Unions and Unions only who vindicated the rights we hold today.
It gets tiresome to have them bashed and bashed without acknowledging that without them, us workers would still be doffing our caps to our betters!
So remember the security of your Pension was protected by the pinkies!
Please step back and review what happened in Waterford Glass.(I am working from memory)
1. Employees who had contributed for years to Pension Scheme in any organisation , would expect that their pension funds would be protected and their pension relatively safe.
(If pension funds are not protected we are all in danger in our older age)
2. From circa 2004? Government had signed up to EU wide protection of 80% of pension pot should private company fail.
3. When Waterford failed the Pensioners were left stranded.
4. Government ignored them.
5. I think SIPTU took the case up, and funded case up to Europe.
(there is no way any private citizen could have funded this)
So what this Union has done is too protect Pension funds for Union and non union members, long after anyone remembers it was the Union that fought for that protection.
If you think back it was Unions and Unions only who vindicated the rights we hold today.
It gets tiresome to have them bashed and bashed without acknowledging that without them, us workers would still be doffing our caps to our betters!
So remember the security of your Pension was protected by the pinkies!
My problem with Unions, in their current form, is that they are willing to seriously damage the viability of the business they are negotiating with and that, in the public sector area, they stymie change and improvement in services to the public and subverted the democratic process by involving themselves in national agreements with a scope far beyond the remit of representing employees.
I know that Deise has extremist political views and supports any and all actions by unions, otherwise he couldn’t support their “success” in the ESB where the average wage is over €90’000 a year or the €180’000’000 that the Waterford Glass pension deal cost the people of Ireland. That’s greater than the cost of fixing the A&E crisis.
Unions were set up to help poor and vulnerable employees and those working in unskilled and low skilled areas.
It’s hard to see where they do that. Instead they agitate for better and better pay and T&C’s for middle and upper middle income employees which drains public funds, hurts competitiveness, costs jobs in the open sectors of the economy and ultimately hurts the poor and vulnerable most.
I’m a democrat and believe that we should all be equal and not subject to bullying and intimidation, be it an employee who is being bullied by their employer or an employer who is being bullied and intimidated by a union.
The person who is most vulnerable and open to bullying and intimidation is one who disagrees with the stance a union takes and speaks out against their actions. I have seen what that can do to a person and it is devastating.
Unions are necessary in some circumstances and if they behaved in a reasonable and rational way, without their hostile and often vitriolic pseudo-socialist dogma, then they could be a positive influence in the country but broadly speaking they do more harm than good.
My T's&C's have nothing to do with the Unions. I've never been in a Union
And as a Public Servant (maybe I'm being innocent here), I always assumed the #1 thing was to look out for the public....provide the best possible service, at the best possible value etc etc.
From my experience, the general public are a very distant second to workers interests and perceived 'rights'
The terms and conditions enjoyed by Public Sector employees were negotiated by Unions & the Government as employers , it doesn't matter whether or not you are a Union member - your T & C's were jointly negotiated by unions & employer.
The point Delboy is making is that the Public Service should be run to serve the public but instead it's run primarily to serve the interests of the people who work there. The unions are responsible for that but as most people want to do a good job and work with like-minded people the irony is that unions make unionised environments less attractive places to work in from a self respect and job satisfaction point of view. That's a high price to pay for good T's and C's.
The march upwards from €90'000 a year starts again. I hope people take solace in that when they open their electricity bills. Labour accounts for over 50% of the input costs in the ESB so if their employees enjoyed an average of only 50% above the average industrial wage our bills could be at least 12% lower. But hey, the poor and the old have to be screwed to look after the "wurkers" in the ESB. That's the union way.
1 of the highest countries for electricity costs in the EU. Something to be proud about alright.