State as employer of last resort

No need to talk about Russia, Ireland has been doing this since the 1970s with disastrous results.
 
Firefly said:
The sooner we find the money tree at the end of the garden the better.
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The "money tree" is the private sector worker - it has always been thus.

Who else has been paying for the Croke Park Agreement and giving young people €188 + rent allowance + this allowance and that allowance??
 
T McGibney said:
No need to talk about Russia, Ireland has been doing this since the 1970s with disastrous results.
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True.

The state have been interfering with the real unemployment figures for years.
It would be interesting if they would finally publish what the real figures are taking into account all those on schemes, illness benefit etc etc.
 
The more often I hear these imbeciles prove their ignorance or stupidity in all economic matters, the more I hope that some country somewhere would actually follow their advice and pay half the unemployed to dig ditches and the other half to fill them in again.
Calling this man an idiot would be disingenuous to real idiots, so I'm open to suggestions on what to call him.
 
Time said:
The state have been interfering with the real unemployment figures for years.
It would be interesting if they would finally publish what the real figures are taking into account all those on schemes, illness benefit etc etc.
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Schemes, illness benefit, slave labour (jobridge), people who do not qualify for a claim at all (self employed gone bust but fail means test for example), emigration figures, etc... The true figures are woefully under reported.
 
Chris said:
The more often I hear these imbeciles prove their ignorance or stupidity in all economic matters, the more I hope that some country somewhere would actually follow their advice and pay half the unemployed to dig ditches and the other half to fill them in again.
Calling this man an idiot would be disingenuous to real idiots, so I'm open to suggestions on what to call him.
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Some country did, it's called North Korea.
 
For more than a " sound bite " overview of ICTU's pre budget submissions I would refer posters to www.ictu.ie under the heading " shifting to growth & jobs "

Mr Beggs specifically referenced the " great depression " & as such I would imagine that his views regarding state involvement were based more on FDR's New Deal than any other concept ?
 
Deiseblue said:
For more than a " sound bite " overview of ICTU's pre budget submissions I would refer posters to www.ictu.ie under the heading " shifting to growth & jobs "

Mr Beggs specifically referenced the " great depression " & as such I would imagine that his views regarding state involvement were based more on FDR's New Deal than any other concept ?
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That's the same New Deal that failed and kept the USA in recession for nearly 10 years longer that it should have been?
 
Purple said:
That's the same New Deal that failed and kept the USA in recession for nearly 10 years longer that it should have been?
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No , that would be the New Deal that restored confidence in America's economy & dramatically reduced unemployment .

As I say www.ictu.ie details ICTU's pre budget submissions & perhaps people should reflect on same rather than on the one topic that Mr. Beggs states is a last resort ?
 
Deiseblue said:
No , that would be the New Deal that restored confidence in America's economy & dramatically reduced unemployment .

As I say www.ictu.ie details ICTU's pre budget submissions & perhaps people should reflect on same rather than on the one topic that Mr. Beggs states is a last resort ?
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That must be a different one to the FDR New Deal because that one did neither.
ICTU are a vested interest group who have a track record of being willing to damage the country in pursuit of their selfish agenda. They are proponents of a bankrupt ideology that undermines the freedom of the individual and are a destructive force both socially and economically. I give the same weight to their utterances on economic matters as I would to the race equality policies of the Klu Klux Klan.
 
We have some of the most reasonable & responsible Trade Unions in the world , the Tallaght strategy being a case in point where Union involvement hastened the advent of the Celtic Tiger which unfortunately was thrown away by a combination of rapacious greed by our Bankers & developers with the collusion of FF.

Brian Lenihan memorably stated that if he had introduced the pension levy/pay cut in France than there would have been riots on French streets , the Unions here however hung fire knowing that although they could have brought the country to it's knees it was not the correct thing to do even allowing for the fact that our union density is 4 times that of France - hence we have the Croke Park Agreement & given the progress made it seems likely that " The Son of Croke Park " is on it's way.

Of course ICTU are a vested interest group given the fact that they are an umbrella group for Trade Unions representing 600,000 members - all such Unions main aim is to protect & if possible enhance terms & conditions - not a hard concept to understand surely ?

Needless to say I stand by my assertion that the New Deal restored confidence in America's economy & dramatically reduced unemployment.
 
Deiseblue said:
We have some of the most reasonable & responsible Trade Unions in the world , the Tallaght strategy being a case in point where Union involvement hastened the advent of the Celtic Tiger which unfortunately was thrown away by a combination of rapacious greed by our Bankers & developers with the collusion of FF.
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The Tallaght Strategy was when Alan Dukes, as leader of FG, supported a minority FF government as long as they implemented economic policies they his party agreed with. It was a far sighted and selfless act so obviously the Trade Unions had nothing to do with it :)
Your synopsis of evens is... heavily edited and rather selective.

Deiseblue said:
Brian Lenihan memorably stated that if he had introduced the pension levy/pay cut in France than there would have been riots on French streets , the Unions here however hung fire knowing that although they could have brought the country to it's knees it was not the correct thing to do even allowing for the fact that our union density is 4 times that of France - hence we have the Croke Park Agreement & given the progress made it seems likely that " The Son of Croke Park " is on it's way.
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That’s like saying that a shop owner should be happy to pay protection money to one racket because the shop owners in the next street have to pay more to the other racket.

Deiseblue said:
Of course ICTU are a vested interest group given the fact that they are an umbrella group for Trade Unions representing 600,000 members - all such Unions main aim is to protect & if possible enhance terms & conditions - not a hard concept to understand surely ?
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No, we’re in agreement on that. They’ve done a great job of it over the last 20 years; massive increases in public sector wages, registered trade agreements, resisting change and modernisation etc. And none of that had any negative impact on the rest of the country at all!

Deiseblue said:
Needless to say I stand by my assertion that the New Deal restored confidence in America's economy & dramatically reduced unemployment.
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I’m sure David Begg agrees with you.
 
Deiseblue said:
We have some of the most reasonable & responsible Trade Unions in the world , the Tallaght strategy being a case in point where Union involvement hastened the advent of the Celtic Tiger which unfortunately was thrown away by a combination of rapacious greed by our Bankers & developers with the collusion of FF.

.
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You do realise the irony that this thread is about comments by David Begg, Director of the Irish Central Bank during the Ahern/Cowen era?
 
Purple said:
The Tallaght Strategy was when Alan Dukes, as leader of FG, supported a minority FF government as long as they implemented economic policies they his party agreed with. It was a far sighted and selfless act so obviously the Trade Unions had nothing to do with it :)
Your synopsis of evens is... heavily edited and rather selective.

That’s like saying that a shop owner should be happy to pay protection money to one racket because the shop owners in the next street have to pay more to the other racket.

No, we’re in agreement on that. They’ve done a great job of it over the last 20 years; massive increases in public sector wages, registered trade agreements, resisting change and modernisation etc. And none of that had any negative impact on the rest of the country at all!

I’m sure David Begg agrees with you.
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Mr. Shatter was indeed the architect of the Tallaght strategy & was aware that for the strategy to work the Unions had to buy into same , to their immense credit the Unions did so & accepted modest wage increases & delivered industrial peace in exchange for beneficial changes to the tax system.

Such tax changes benefited all PAYE workers , the wages increases benefited all Unionised workers & the majority of non Unionised workers as employers paid the increases negotiated under the various national wage agreements as they found same to be reasonable.

It amuses me that when people have a difficulty with national wage agreements , benchmarking & the CPA it is always the Unions that catch the flak - Such agreements are negotiated by both parties to such agreements - the employers & the Unions representing employees.

Benchmarking was of course a different matter - the reports were delivered by independent bodies.

I'm sure that Mr. Beggs does agree with me re the benefits of the New Deal , that makes 2 of us to your one :)
 
T McGibney said:
You do realise the irony that this thread is about comments by David Begg, Director of the Irish Central Bank during the Ahern/Cowen era?
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Mr. Begg's role in the Central Bank has never been forensically dissected by the Irish media - not even by the Indo.

Perhaps because Mr. Beggs was on the Internal Audit committee & was not privy to the info on the Banks ?
 
Deiseblue said:
Mr. Begg's role in the Central Bank has never been forensically dissected by the Irish media - not even by the Indo.

Perhaps because Mr. Beggs was on the Internal Audit committee & was not privy to the info on the Banks ?
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Internal audit? Its getting worse.

What did David Begg have to say when SIPTU chiefs purposely failed to comply with Accounting Standard FRS17 in preparing their accounts, thus necessitating a qualified audit report?

[broken link removed]


And are you telling me that as a Central Bank director, David Begg did not attend board meetings nor exercise the statutory duty of care responsibilities that attach to directors.
 
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