Some landlords should be barred from being landlords

Discussion in 'Property investment and tenants' rights' started by LS400, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. LS400

    LS400 Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    269
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2016
    We all know there have been excellent LL, and truly shockingly bad ones, the balance will now tilt towards the latter I believe.

    I also believe there should have been a penalty point type system put in place to tackle bad LLs, reach a certain point, and you are precluded form being such. This should entail, condition of property, attitude of LL, refunds of deposit etc.

    This point systems should also be applied to the Tenant, we know there are some horrendous ones out there with the huge protection of the prtb.

    This is another case of one cap fits all. Well it absolutely doesn't.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2016
  2. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    2,618
    I've read a lot of wacky ideas on this subject in recent times but this takes the biscuit.

    Imagine owning a property or portfolio of properties and being disbarred from letting them out to tenants, in the middle of a housing crisis, because someone objects to, or is offended by, your attitude!!!

    Now imagine the same logic being applied to other areas of life.

    Are we going to have government goons going round shutting down businesses because they have the wrong "attitude"? And will we end up with people being banned from earning a living, associating freely or attending to their own private lawful affairs, for the same reason?

    This crisis has its roots in the 2009 post-crash passive aggressive witch-hunt against property investors. By the looks of things, there is a long long way to go, and a lot more unnecessary pain to be suffered, before it all ends in a nightmare of fascism.
     
    jim likes this.
  3. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    2,618
    I've read a lot of wacky ideas on this subject in recent times but this takes the biscuit.

    Imagine owning a property or portfolio of properties and being disbarred from letting them out to tenants, in the middle of a housing crisis, because someone objects to, or is offended by, your attitude!!!

    Now imagine the same logic being applied to other areas of life.

    Are we going to have government goons going round shutting down businesses because they have the wrong "attitude"? And will we end up with people being banned from earning a living, associating freely or attending to their own private lawful affairs, for the same reason?

    This crisis has its roots in the 2009 post-crash passive aggressive witch-hunt against property investors. By the looks of things, there is a long long way to go, and a lot more unnecessary pain to be suffered, before it all ends in a nightmare of fascism.
     
  4. LS400

    LS400 Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    269
    Was it a whacky idea when the Taxi regulator smartened up the Taxi Business.
    Poor attitude, dirty Taxis,over charging ...

    The person only has to put up with the cab for a short time,
    They're stuck with the property LL for years.

    Some people aren't fit to be LL, accidental or not.

    Having a Put up or shut approach is what's whacky in this day and age.
     
  5. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    2,618
    We have a housing crisis and a chronic shortage of rental properties.

    You want to ban landlords from renting properties if you dislike their attitude.

    That won't solve the crisis
     
  6. LS400

    LS400 Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    269
    T Mc

    Your only focus seems to be on the word "Attitude " move on.

    Yes we have a crisis, we just have a bigger crisis now. I'm a bloody good LL, who now has to weight up, do I continue to be a good LL, or like my colleague, max out my return and join the ranks of greed.

    Because of the over priced filthy hovels out there, without any enforced regulation, my tenants now suffer, and now decent LLs will suffer due to this Governments intervention.

    They're looking in the wrong place to tackle this crisis, flip flopping from one disaster to another leaving behind a mess and trying score points on one another at the expense of all.

    LLs provide a very much needed service in his country, the Government has tried everything in its power to disincentive the profession, which just made a bad situation worse.

    I firmly believe there should be a penalty for bad LLs, Weather its perceived as whacky or not.
     
    jim likes this.
  7. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    2,618
    Yes, I was frankly shocked by your suggestion on assessing and banning landlords on foot of perceived attitudes. I didn't particularly disagree with a lot of the rest of your suggestions and like yourself I am totally frustrated by successive governments' efforts to discredit and disincentivise landlords.

    This is at the heart of the crisis, which in my opinion was deliberately engineered but now has spiralled out of control, and it won't abate until investing in and letting properties once again becomes an attractive option. That won't happen as long as politicians and petty bureaucrats insist on micromanaging the sector to death.
     
    Purple and LS400 like this.
  8. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    489

    Landlords in general are very good, but like in every category of life there's a few below accepted standard. However, let's not forget the perfect tenants either, that would be an awful travesty.
     
  9. LS400

    LS400 Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    269
    But that's my point, there are good LLs, there are good tenants, there are bad LLs and there are bad Tenants.

    Any good relationship between LLs and tenants will, after the interference of government be even more diminished.
     
  10. dub_nerd

    dub_nerd Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    1,260
    Let's not forget the government has given landlords an enormous boost by pursuing policies that have caused property and rental prices to rocket.
     
  11. LS400

    LS400 Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    269
    That boost applies to all property, not just Rental properties.

    I for one, crazy as it may seem, do not welcome the ridiculous price seen years ago.

    With 2 kids growing, 12 Nieces and Nephews soon to be on the market for property, I don't want them paying half a million for a shoe box saddled with debt for years to come, or end up with the LL from hell.
     
  12. Jim2007

    Jim2007 Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    1,711
    Have a read of the constitution, it was designed to put whacky ideas where they should be.
     
  13. Jim2007

    Jim2007 Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    1,711
    Now that is the whacky idea => The only way to provide houses is for people to take on large debts or rely on social housing if you can't afford to take on the debt. Every single Irish politician has some version of the same solution. And yet there are plenty of models a cross mainland Europe that do not rely on this philosophy.... the only problem is the voter wants a house not a solution to housing... and so the story goes on.
     
  14. Freshstart

    Freshstart Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    60
    So by the same suggestion would we have a penalty system for bad tenants? Reach so many points and you can no longer lease a property!? What happens then?
     
  15. LS400

    LS400 Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    269
    Why shouldn't it apply to the tenants.
    As mentioned, there are some horrendous ones doing the rounds.

    If a tenant plays the system, and wrecks a property, holds off of on rent, LL eventually pays them off and then ends up in your place..

    References and phone calls can be cobbled together. Having a tax clearance type of system would make both the LL and the Tenants wise up.

    What's whacky about that, is that it would work for the good of all, except the messer's

    We really should look at other countries, and yes, like Germany and Holland to get Ideas on how they operate. Maybe I wrong, but I just can't imagine the same the same low standards being excepted by either LL or Tenant there.
     
  16. dub_nerd

    dub_nerd Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    1,260
    Some of it does. Rent Allowance only applies to rental properties, to the tune of over a quarter of a billion per year, up 30% this year, which is effectively a landlord subsidy.
     
  17. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    7,232
    Property tax, tax on mortgage interest, PTRB fees etc have all increased rents significantly without increasing incomes for landlords. My landlord pays €600 a year in property tax. To earn that from me he has to charge me €1250. That adds €104 a month to my rent. I have to earn €2600 to end up with the €1250 in after tax income to pay him the €1250. In effect because he pays the property tax and not me it costs me twice as much. Look at that nationally and it's a massive increase in tax income for the government.
     
    Ceist Beag and Firefly like this.
  18. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    1,993
    Consolidation in the rental market seems like a logical conclusion to me if things stay as they are. Prices are getting to high for ordinary purchasers. Restrictions & red tape are making it too harsh for small landlords (both on the income side and time / hassle side). Small landlords will continue to leave the market and will perhaps be bought out by larger landlords / institutions. This I think would be a better outcome in any case. The institutions would have deeper pockets to provide better rental accomodation. Likewise any non-payment of rent / damage to property would be persued and a criminal charge would result (as would happen if damage was caused to anyting else). Knowing that your landlord was a well funded organisation would make any dodgy tenent out there think twice, especially if there are only a few landlords to choose from! It would also be far easier for PTRB to deal a smaller number of larger landlords. The knock-on effect of this would be better legislation whereby long-term rental agreements are entered into. Much like Europe. Without a decent lump of cash from their parents, the 20-30 somethings of today and probably from now on will only really be able to rent a house or live somewhere undesirable.
     
    Purple likes this.
  19. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    2,618
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017

    All fine and well until you wake up some morning and realise that Denis O'Brien or someone like him owns the entire available rental residential stock in your town or district.

    What do you think is going to happen to rents (not to mention tenants' customer service) from that point onwards? :rolleyes:

    And any Year Zero-style mass reconfiguration of rental property ownership is going to take decades to realise. Are we going to condemn generations of renters to misery and endless shortages in the meantime?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  20. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    1,993
    With proper legislation not much. Rents and standards would be controlled. Deep pocketted investors would have the economies of scale to make a return. There would be one number for tenants to call and the whole thing would be more transparent. Rental accommodation is going to be like any other type of service, such as electricity, broadband, with some big providers and some regulation in the background.

    I am not proposing that a mass reconfiguration is needed, but that if things stay the same it seems a logical outcome to me. Of course there are always going to be smaller landlords, but I see consolidation happening in the bigger towns/cities where the economies of scale make sense.