Should the Fairdeal be applied in order to start "clock ticking"?

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broccoli

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Hi,
Hopefully I am posting in the correct place......

My aunt is currently in a nursing home, and is unlikely to be able to return home. Her siblings, nieces/nephews are her closest relatives. She has enough means at the moment to pay for herself, and doesn't qualify for any financial support from fairdeal/gp cards etc. However, her assets will obviously be depleting as each month goes by.

So my question is, should she apply for fairdeal even though she will be turned down based on her current financial position?
When she applies in a few years when her savings are gone, will the fact that she is in the nursing home paying for herself for a few years be taken into account, so that her residence no longer factors into the equation (i.e. after the 3 years)?
If her residence was rented out, would this change how the residence was viewed in the calculations?

Also, given the changes to the fairdeal scheme that are currently been discussed, would the new or the old terms of the scheme be application to applications being made?

I have put these questions to the fairdeal support staff & the helpline, but those that I have spoken to have never been asked this question before, and don't know definitively. The conclusion was that there is no need to apply now, but I am not fully reassured that this is correct.

Also, given the changes to the fairdeal scheme that are currently been discussed, would the new or the old terms of the scheme be applied to applications being made?

My aunt is the first fully private patient in her nursing home, so they are not in a position to advise either. She herself is not well enough to decide.

Many thanks for any help.
 
You should probably apply now on her behalf. Everyone qualifies for the fair deal scheme, it's just that she will be means tested for how much she needs to pay for the first three years. After the three years they will pay her costs and get a refund of up to a maximum of 22.5% of her assets. I'm guessing you aunt is not paying much tax at present as the only reason for not using the FD scheme would be that she can get tax relief on this payment as can any relative who is paying for her can. The advantage of the scheme is that if your aunt lives another twenty years her fees will be capped.
 
The 3 year cap on residence value will run from the date your aunt enters the private nursing home, so it's probably already running. If your aunt's means are so high that she will receive no contribution from Fair Deal, she will be told that. Her application can be reviewed annually, on your request, after that. The 5 years period for transfer of the residence will be irrelevant if she pays for 3 years stay from her own funds.
 
Thank you both for your replies.

So based on what you are saying, we should apply for FD as soon as possible - in order to get her into the system.
Her financial affairs are extensive, and this will take a bit of time so I am glad to hear the date for the 3 year cap on residence value runs from when she entered the home.

Based on my rough calculations using her income and assets (excluding the house) and using the current parameters of the deal, it will be around 4 years before FD will make any contribution towards her care.

If FD is changed so that the percentages to be used are 10% instead of 7.5, what will be applied to the calculations for people already in residence? Will it remain at 7.5% a year for 3 years, i.e. based on the date she entered the home?

Slim, from what you are saying, her house could be transferred and sold by the transferree without the funds being having to be included in the FD calculations after the 3 years?

Her home is a modest (old) house, and I think would need some work done before it could be rented out. It is in a great location though. We are not sure what to do with it though. Right now it is empty, with various family members staying overnight every so often in it, to comply with the insurance requirements. It is unlikely that my aunt will ever be able to return to live in her home, so we will need to do something with it. She is unable to communicate as a result of her illness, so it is very difficult to figure to figure out what is best! A family member does have POA thankfully.

Thanks again, appreciate the help.
 
broccoli said:
If FD is changed so that the percentages to be used are 10% instead of 7.5, what will be applied to the calculations for people already in residence? Will it remain at 7.5% a year for 3 years, i.e. based on the date she entered the home?
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I'm pretty sure that the change from 5% p.a. to 7.5% affects only new applications rather than current ones so based on that I would expect it to stay the same. Bear in mind this is the maximum amount to be paid from estate.
 
I probably picked it up the original comment wrong, but I mean that 7.5% of an ever decreasing asset (besides the house) pot would be used - but it would continue to be used until the 36,000 threshold was all that was left,and not stop at 3 years.

thanks.
 
broccoli said:
Thank you both for your replies.

So based on what you are saying, we should apply for FD as soon as possible - in order to get her into the system. Her financial affairs are extensive, and this will take a bit of time so I am glad to hear the date for the 3 year cap on residence value runs from when she entered the home. There is no real benefit in applying now except to get clarity on the threshholds that apply now to your aunt.

If FD is changed so that the percentages to be used are 10% instead of 7.5, what will be applied to the calculations for people already in residence? Will it remain at 7.5% a year for 3 years, i.e. based on the date she entered the home? I suspect it will be the rate applicable at the date of her successful application.

Slim, from what you are saying, her house could be transferred and sold by the transferree without the funds being having to be included in the FD calculations after the 3 years? That is my information but it has to be transferred to another before being sold and clearly not added to her cash savings.
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Broccoli - the 7.5% is paid per anum based on the value of assets (less €36k pp). After 3 years the PPR is dropped from the calculation of assets. In addition, 80% of income is also paid to the nursing home, while the balance is paid by the HSE.
 
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