RAS tenant not paying rent

lopin

Registered User
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I have a tenant who owe RAS over €5,000. RAS wants me to remove them from my house.

My question is
1. Why did RAS put a tenant like this into my property without doing a proper check?
2. If tenant with 3 children are evicted who will house them?
3. How difficult & how long will it to remove them from my property?
4. Will RAS continue paying rent while tenant is in my house?

Any advice welcome
 
I have a property rented through RAS, why are they paying the tenant to pay you, that was the big selling point for me is they pay directly to my account. I don't bother with S/W tenants anymore for that very reason.

What County is that in?
 
Unfortunately it is not that unusual a situation. And by and large the council may leave it up to you to try and get the rent from the tenant.
 
Hi Emeralds.

Wexford

RAS have always paid me.

Its the tenant who is not paying his portion to RAS which is now over €5k
 
RAS have always paid me. its the tenant who is not paying his portion to RAS which is now over 5k

On what grounds are you going to cease the tenancy,assume they have part 4 and the rent is being paid so if you force them out you are leaving yourself wide open to a PRTB case.

This is firstly a problem for the RAS staff in the CoCo to manage not you,seems to me they are getting you to do their donkey work and take a potential hit via the PRTB.
 
I also have a house rented out under RAS, as far as I'm concerned, the council are contracted to pay me and that's that. The council have to take the hit until the contract expires, BUT you know what's coming then: council off the hook and you have yourself an overholding tenant who will play the system for a year before you get them out.

This isn't going to end well either way, so I'd probably engage with the council and see if they will fund your legal costs to start proceedings while you are still getting paid at least. I think there are grounds to evict-the contract I signed anyway includes an obligation on the tenant to pay their share to the council-failing to do so is a breach of the tenancy agreement (might be different in Wexford).
 
RAS have always paid me. its the tenant who is not paying his portion to RAS which is now over 5k

Wonderful stuff this. The council want you to evict a tenant, who is doing nothing wrong contractually or otherwise with you.

Can you imagine the trouble you'd be in if you evicted, that tenant would righly be down on you with a ton of bricks from the PRTB if you evicted her.

5K is a lot, normally people in this situation would be paying a very low amount, so those arrears could be a few years old at this stage, and the council have done nothing about it, and are now trying to apply pressure on you to sort it out.

Did the council tell you to act by letter or phone? I would be amazed if they put it in writing.

Do you have a contract with the council that states you are to house this tenant, if yes, how can they get out of paying you?
 
Under RAS contract you have to carry out normal landlord duties which includes eviction for non payment of rent. This does not sound too bad, why not explain to the tenant what you were told to do and then go through the proper channels, serve notice and evict. If the tenant gets awkward and does not leave, go through the PRTB and hope that the Council continue to pay the rent to you while the process is going on.
Make sure this remains the Councils problem and not yours.
 
Under my Ras contract with the Co Co the Co.Co pay me. As long as the Council pay me I have no right to remove the Tenant for non payment. Lopin you are getting paid under Ras by the Co Co so it is of no concern to you. You have no business even discussing this with your Tenant and certainly no grounds for removing the Tenant. So do not go there. Simple
I wonder are the council in breach of the Data Protection Act in discussing the Tenants business with you ie the arrears
 
I have a tenant who owe RAS over 5000 Euro. RAS wants me to remove them from my house.
My question is
1. Why did RAS put a tenant like this into my property without doing a proper check
2. If tenant with 3 children are evicted who will house them
3. How difficult & how long will it to remove them from my property
4. Will RAS continue paying rent while tenant is in my house
Any advice welcome

From their own website:

"Landlord & Tenant Relationship and Responsibilities of Landlord. The key “landlord and tenant” relationship remains between the property owner and the former rent
supplement recipient. The local authority will act as broker or agent on behalf of the tenant. As such, the landlord will retain responsibility for:
1. Insurances - property, landlord’s contents and public liability;
2. Routine Maintenance/Repair and replacement of equipment; and
3. Dealing with breaches of the tenant’s obligations to the landlord should they arise."

If your tenant has not breached the terms of the contract that you and he/she signed then really you have no cause to evict the tenant.

The tenant has a separate agreement with the council and it looks like they are asking you to do their dirty work.

Dermot makes a very good point. They should not be discussing this with you as it has nothing to do with you. You are upholding your end of your agreement and the tenant is complying with the T&C's of the lease.

I would simply forget about this but keep a close eye and make sure they continue to pay you. As they have a contract with you.
 
I wonder are the council in breach of the Data Protection Act in discussing the Tenants business with you ie the arrears

They have driven a coach and four though that act,its a bungle job from start to finish,get on to the RAS unit and find out the name of the senior officer there and then write him/her a letter outlining all the concerns highlighted.

Its down to them to manage the arrears owed for what must be a considerable time frame.
 
They have driven a coach and four though that act,its a bungle job from start to finish,

Pretty standard stuff. I would not make a big issue of the request from the council. Stay well clear - its really none of your business. I would tell the tenant what the council asked you to do - tell them your take on it - most important thing for you is to keep the tenant sweet. They will more likely look after your property if they think you are helping them in any way.

Council will REGULARLY tell a Landlord stories about tenants, warn landlords to NOT rent to certain tenants (for example if the tenant is currently living in one county, but tries to move into your county and claim RAS - council ALWAYS try to discourage this as it adds one to their list. They dont give a MONKEYS about you or your tenant. Fact.)
 
Hi All

I got the following information regarding RAS agreement, it does look like I have to deal with non-payment of rent to local authority

Landlord & Tenant Relationship and Responsibilities of Landlord
The key "landlord and tenant" relationship remains between the property owner and the former rent supplement recipient. The local authority will act as broker or agent on behalf of the tenant.
As such, the landlord will retain responsibility for:
1. Insurances - property, landlord's contents and public liability.
2. Routine Maintenance/Repair and replacement of equipment.

3. Dealing with anti-social behaviour and any other breeches of the tenancy including non-payment of rent to the local authority should they arise.
 
Hi All

I got the following information regarding RAS agreement, it does look like I have to deal with non-payment of rent to local authority

Landlord & Tenant Relationship and Responsibilities of Landlord
The key "landlord and tenant" relationship remains between the property owner and the former rent supplement recipient. The local authority will act as broker or agent on behalf of the tenant.
As such, the landlord will retain responsibility for:
1. Insurances - property, landlord's contents and public liability.
2. Routine Maintenance/Repair and replacement of equipment.

3. Dealing with anti-social behaviour and any other breeches of the tenancy including non-payment of rent to the local authority should they arise.


Where did you get that information? This is from the explanatory leaflet for landlords from the department of the environment:


As such, the landlord will retain responsibility for:
1. Insurances - property, landlord’s contents and
public liability;
2. Routine Maintenance/Repair and replacement of
equipment; and
3. Dealing with breaches of the tenant’s obligations
to the landlord should they arise.


It would make no sense for them to say that one of the advantageous of joining the scheme is:

The landlord not having to collect rents for the duration of the RAS contract;


And then make you responsible for non payment of rent you have no responsibility to collect.? Does not compute.
 
Hi Commonsense,

I found the following information on Irishlandlord.com which relates to RAS

Rental Accommodation Scheme (RAS)


The Rental Accommodation Scheme (RAS) is a new initiative being introduced to cater for the accommodation needs of persons who are in receipt of rent supplement, normally for more than 18 months, and who have a long-term housing need (excluding asylum seekers or other non-nationals who do not have leave to remain in the State permanently, students and persons in receipt of rent supplement as a "back to work" incentive). The scheme is being administered by local authorities and is intended to provide an additional source of good quality rented accommodation for eligible persons to enhance the response of local authorities to meeting long-term housing need.

Local authorities will enter into contractual arrangements with accommodation providers to secure the medium to long-term availability of private rented accommodation for RAS.
While different contract types may be entered into [see below] they will have in common the following main features:
· The local authority will pay the full rent to the landlord on behalf of the tenant.
· The Residential Tenancies Act 2004 will govern the relationship between the landlord and the tenant.
· The landlord must be tax compliant.
· The property must meet minimum standards including fire standards for private rental accommodation as determined by the local authority.
· The landlord must have registered, or agree to register the tenancy with the Private Rented Tenancies Board (PRTB).


How will RAS work?
RAS will involve a three-way relationship between:
· The local authority and the landlord.
· The landlord and the tenant.
· The tenant and the local authority.

In general, as a first step, the local authority will seek to enter into a contractual arrangement with the accommodation provider to make housing available to RAS for an agreed term (other arrangements may also exist, see below). The terms of this contract will be negotiated between the two parties. The accommodation may be an existing property or new build. The local authority will guarantee the rent on behalf of the tenant and will undertake to make the full payment directly to the landlord.

Secondly, the local authority will nominate a RAS recipient to the accommodation who signs a residential tenancy agreement with the landlord. The nominee could be an existing tenant of the property who currently receives rent supplement, and is eligible for RAS. The local authority will be party to this agreement as guarantor of the rent.
Finally, the RAS recipient and the local authority agree that the local authority will make payments to the landlord on the recipient's behalf.

What contractual arrangements will exist between the Landlord/Agent and the local authority?
Models agreements have been developed for use with the scheme and will form the basis for contract negotiation between the landlord and the local authority.

A number of forms of contractual arrangements between landlords/developers, local authorities and tenants may exist under the RAS. In the main these will fall broadly into three types of arrangement.

· A) Availability type arrangements between landlords and local authorities to secure medium to long-term availability of accommodation (with local authority having nomination rights to accommodation).
· B) Tenancy by Tenancy arrangements with landlords to meet short term accommodation requirements (Local authority guarantees rent payment only for term that a specified tenancy is in existence).
· C) Long term PPP/Part V type arrangements between developers and local authorities to secure long-term availability of accommodation.
Standard forms of contract form the contractual basis for arrangements between landlords, tenants and local authorities. The form of contract entered into will set out the general responsibilities of the three parties. Within certain parameters local authorities will be able to negotiate the particular conditions under which accommodation providers make their properties available for RAS.

Landlord & Tenant Relationship and Responsibilities of Landlord
The key "landlord and tenant" relationship remains between the property owner and the former rent supplement recipient. The local authority will act as broker or agent on behalf of the tenant.
As such, the landlord will retain responsibility for:
1. Insurances - property, landlord's contents and public liability.
2. Routine Maintenance/Repair and replacement of equipment.
3. Dealing with anti-social behaviour and any other breeches of the tenancy including non-payment of rent to the local authority should they arise.

How will rent levels be determined?
Rent levels will be determined by negotiation between the landlord and the local authority and will reflect local market conditions.
The rent may not exceed the current SWA rent supplement rent level in the area for each type of household (single parents, family households of various size etc.). These rent levels will act as an upper limit in negotiations between local authorities and landlords.
However, local authorities will seek a reduction in the current rent level in return variously for:
· 1. The landlord not having to collect rents for the duration of the RAS contract.
· 2. The landlord not having to fill vacancies (advertise and interview prospective tenants) for the duration of the RAS contract.
· 3. The fact that the average yield across the private rented sector is less than a full year's rent due to vacancies/tenant turnover.
· 4. The very bankable asset that a guaranteed fixed-term RAS rent payment represents.
· 5. Guaranteed prompt payment by a State agency.

Deposits and Damage to Property
No deposits will be paid under the RAS as a contractual arrangement will exist between the landlord and the local authority. However, where damage is caused to property, which is above routine wear and tear, the county council may guarantee the equivalent of up to one month's rent towards the cost of repair/replacement. The details of this will be the subject of negotiation.

How to become involved in RAS?
Contact the housing department of the relevant county council
 
Everything is the same except this one point:

3. Dealing with anti-social behaviour and any other breeches of the tenancy including non-payment of rent to the local authority should they arise.


On the "official" website here http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/Housing/SocialHousingSupport/RentalAccomodationScheme/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,2460,en.pdf,

it clearly says:

3. Dealing with breaches of the tenant’s obligations
to the landlord should they arise

Now why this has been changed on Irishlandlord.com is a mystery.

Do you have a contract from the Local authority? Do you have the explanatory leaflet?

The tenant has a contract with the local authority to pay the rent to them - you have a contract with the local authority to provide the accommodation. They pay you - you cannot evict a tenant for non payment of a rent that they are not contractually obliged to pay you.
 
The tenant has a contract with the local authority to pay the rent to them - you have a contract with the local authority to provide the accommodation. They pay you - you cannot evict a tenant for non payment of a rent that they are not contractually obliged to pay you.

The above neatly sums up the situation.

As regards the 5k arrears this sounds like over 2 years of arrears but it is still not your problem and do not get involved in it or even discuss that you know about it to your tenant.
How would the Co Co be able to defend the situation that they have been discussing what amounts to confidential and private matters about their client with a third party (you).
This is clearly a breach of Data protection and the council employee who disclosed this information to you has questions to answer.
If you remove your tenant in the circumstances that you have stated PRTB will teach you an expensive lesson and the Co Co will walk away from you. Make sure that the Co Co keep paying you on time and that there are no arrears.
The Co Co. allowed a problem to develop now they have to sort it out themselves like what Landlords have to do
 
Folks, the council are just going to let the agreement run its course and then walk away, leaving these non-payers to become very much the OP's problem. He should really seek some legal advice on this now while he's getting the rent each month. Doing nothing is not good advice here.
 
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