Motorway sliproad...who is supposed to yield?

[jdwex]

jdwex; couldnt agree more. used the M11 for the first time few weeks back. Coming from M1 to M50 to M11. Unfamiliar with road and so was the motor behind me ( also LH reg) we both kept weaving in and out as I ( and probably the other driver) thought that I was going to be 'slipped' off the the left if I didnt enter the RH lane. Took me about 3 junctions before I realised that the LH was perfectly ok to continue on in.

I sent an email to the NRA (National Roads Authority) asking for the rationale regarding the signage, but they never bothered replying. My theory is they got a graduate engineer who doesn't drive to design them.
jd

 

[John_DI]

Hi,

jdwex Wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_DI
In an ideal world, nobody should overtake approaching a slip road. Overtaking lane would then be free for traffic on the Motorway to move over to allow merging traffic to join.



I disagree with you here insofar I don't think it should be legally forbidden. Unnecessary weaving causes "phantom jams" at motorway intersections

I do not understand. What "Weaving"

You are driving on a motorway approaching a slip road. You see a vehicle on the slip road joining. The overtaking lane is clear so you move over, give him your lane. After he/she joins you then move back to the left hand lane. Depending on your relative speeds - either in front or behind.

However if there is traffic overtaking you at the slip road you will be unable to move over and make room, hence my point - approaching a slip road the overtaking lane should be clear.

Institute Advanced Motoring Book

As you approach and pass an entrance slip road, keep an eye on the traffic about to join the morotway. If it is safe for you to move from the left hand lane to the center lane without worrying a driver coming up behind it is considerate to do so in order to make easier for the driver joining the motorway as well as to keep yourself out of trouble.

I did say "in an ideal world". On Motorways in Ireland the overtaking lane is quite often more congested than the left hand lane.

 

[delgirl]

Motorists must obey road signs and road markings and must not drive on hatch markings before merging with traffic.

That's great if motorists know what the hatch markings and closed white lines are for - unfortunately too many here in Ireland don't and it's incredibly dangerous.

I've almost been hit on a few occasions by speeding cars joining the motorway on the slip road and driving across the hatch markings unexpectedly.

One of the places I've become very cautious with is where the M11 joins the M50 southbound. Motorists don't seem to know what lane to get into and recklessly cut across the hatch markings and closed white lines.

Motorway driving should be included in the driving test as it is in places such as Germany and Switzerland.

 

[jdwex]

That's great if motorists know what the hatch markings and closed white lines are for - unfortunately too many here in Ireland don't and it's incredibly dangerous.



One of the places I've become very cautious with is where the M11 joins the M50 southbound. .

People seem to panic when there are two merging lanes and they notice the right hand lane beginning to merge. They then shoot across the hatching/ solid white lines..

 

[jdwex]

Hi,

jdwex Wrote:


I do not understand. What "Weaving"

.

Essentially cars moving from one lane to another tends to cause congestion on motor ways. Have you never come across those strange tailbacks on motorways that seem to occurr for no reason?
I've never come across a motorway anywhere in the world where overtaking would be forbidden near intersections.
A lot of Irish drivers seem to trundle dow the slip road at 70-80 km/hr without trying to match the speed of the motorway traffic.
jd

 

[John_DI]

Hi

jdwex Wrote:

Q

uote:
Originally Posted by John_DI
Hi,

jdwex Wrote:


I do not understand. What "Weaving"

.

Essentially cars moving from one lane to another tends to cause congestion on motor ways. Have you never come across those strange tailbacks on motorways that seem to occurr for no reason?

Thank you for the above explanation, but I would not call moving over to accomodate someone joining the motorway "weaving". Neither does the Institute of Advanced Motorists who say you should move over. (Quoted in my last post).

Also, Roadcraft, The Police Drivers Handbook say to move to the lane on your right or "make slight adjustments to your speed".

I use both methods, but of the two much prefer to move over - IF the lane is clear.

I think your intentions are much clearer to the person joining if you indicate and move out to the overtaking lane. They see the indicator and the empty lane and enter. Slow down, or as they say "Slight adjustment" is not as obvious. And you have more freedom/options in the overtaking lane.

jdwex Wrote:

I've never come across a motorway anywhere in the world where overtaking would be forbidden near intersections

.

I never used the word forbidden. What I said was

In an ideal world, nobody should overtake approaching a slip road.

Just meant that people should use common sense leave the overtaking lane clear at joining junctions.

Rgds

 

[sonnyikea]

As a motorist you are obliged AT ALL TIMES to give way to traffic joining a motorway.

With all due respect, you seem to know a lot about cars from your other posts, but this is a basic misunderstanding of the rules of the road. If this is an indication of the confusion that abounds in drivers in this country it is no wonder the death rate is the way it.

To suggest that a car travelling at 120kph gives way to a car travelling at any speed between 0 - 120kph is absurd. I only hope you meant that the motorway car should move over to allow the slip road driver on to the motorway if they can do so safely. The OP was alluding to the what the law is when the motorway is congested and it is impossible for the left lane driver on the motorway to pull into the outside lane.

 

[jdwex]

I sent an email to the NRA (National Roads Authority) asking for the rationale regarding the signage, but they never bothered replying. My theory is they got a graduate engineer who doesn't drive to design them.
jd

I got a reply! Looks like those gantries will be gone..

Dear Mr. jdwex,

Thank you for your email regarding gantry signs on the M50.

To date there have not been very many overhead gantry or cantilever signs used in this country. The new overhead cantilever type signs were piloted on the M50 South Eastern Motorway along with the newer sign face layout with the separate panel for each lane. Following the installation of these signs a study was carried out on behalf of the Authority by the UCD Marketing Development Programme to determine the attitudes of motorists to the new signage with a view to determining its effectiveness. The study found that motorists “considered the signage beneficial” and “found the sequence of the signage excellent”. The new signage namely Cantilever, Gantry and Next Exit signs were well received by all motorists and considered a great improvement over the more traditional motorway signs bringing much greater clarity than before. In relation to the gantry signs in particular, motorists responded very positively stating that they were “very comprehensive, informative and helpful”. There was however, some confusion over lane destination and a certain “ambiguity regarding the eventual destination displayed on the left lane as this indicated that continuing along the M50 in this lane would reach that destination only”. On foot of these findings the Authority has recently made alterations to the sign face layout on overhead gantry signs – the revised layout will be used on future overhead gantry signs on motorways and dual carriageways including those on the upgrade works elsewhere on the M50.

I hope the above information is of assistance to you.
Regards
xxxx

 

[zag]

Sigh.

Why does the NRA think it has to re-invent the wheel every time it goes to do something ? I could be wrong, but I thought there was pretty much a global standard when it came to motorway signage, they don't need to employ the nice people from market research to see what people think of their signs, they need to employ roads professionals to do what the rest of the world is doing when it comes to these signs.

It's a bit like the way Ireland is ahead of the curve (or so the NRA thinks) when it comes to motorway rest areas. The rest of the world has them on motorways (and to a particular standard) and doesn't just rename the local filling station as a rest area, regardless of opening hours, standards, ability to take HGVs, etc . . .

Motorway signs are supposed to be clear and unambiguous because the people reading them are likely to be zooming by at 120km/h and shouldn't have to take their mind off their driving to try to second guess what the NRA really meant when they erected the sign saying this lane leaves the motorway ahead.

z

 

[Albany]

Coming from M1 to M50 to M11. Unfamiliar with road and so was the motor behind me ( also LH reg) we both kept weaving in and out as I ( and probably the other driver) thought that I was going to be 'slipped' off the the left if I didnt enter the RH lane. Took me about 3 junctions before I realised that the LH was perfectly ok to continue on in.

Maybe you should let the NRA know - I completely agree with you - the overhead signs are very misleading!

 

[RS2K]

As a motorist you are obliged AT ALL TIMES to give way to traffic joining a motorway. The reason for the overtaking lane is to allow you to move in to it for the purpose of overtaking. If you find yourself stuck in the inside lane, unable to move safely into the overtaking lane, you MUST yeild to traffic joining your lane....

Is just basic ignorance!

With respect that's rubbish.

When you are joining a motorway from a slip road you should indicate to express your intention to do so. Traffic already on the motorway may perhaps move over one lane to help you or perhaps slow down. If traffic is heavy and slow this may not be possible. The reason for acceleration lanes is to enable the traffic joining ther motorway to match speed with the flow of traffic.

Buy a copy of How to be an Advanced driver from the IAM. Details are on page 64.

 

[RS2K]

From the Highway Code (UK)

Driving on the motorway

Joining the motorway 233: When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should

• give priority to traffic already on the motorway
• check the traffic on the motorway and adjust your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
• not cross solid white lines that separate lanes
• stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
• remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.

 

[lisam]

I hope i dont come acroos any of ye who dont know that the cars on the motorway have priority when I'm on the M50 tomorrow!!