Legal Position on my wife Mortgage

Terry

Hi Terry,

I have no issue putting a roof over my kids heads. I will fight for custody but am unlikely to win even though she isn't really up to it.

The reality is that in Ireland - it is highly probable she will win.

In my opinion -she could go back to her apartment as she has a roof over her head already. I lived in my house before we got married or she moved in.

Going to her apartment is a no go for me because in 2010 - I got involved in running the management company - only to find out that a criminal element was involved. I therefore left the management company but the upshot is that it is unsafe for me to be near / around that apartment (this sound a bit mad and I wish it wasn't true).

It would be safe for her to return to her apartment (although she never lived there) and to arrange rights with the kids.
She wont do this and wants my house now.
 
I agree my kids have a roof over their heads - it should be me and not her who has the house and the kids though. She already has her apartment.
 
Hi Terry,

I have no issue putting a roof over my kids heads. I will fight for custody but am unlikely to win even though she isn't really up to it.

The reality is that in Ireland - it is highly probable she will win.

In my opinion -she could go back to her apartment as she has a roof over her head already. I lived in my house before we got married or she moved in.

Going to her apartment is a no go for me because in 2010 - I got involved in running the management company - only to find out that a criminal element was involved. I therefore left the management company but the upshot is that it is unsafe for me to be near / around that apartment (this sound a bit mad and I wish it wasn't true).

It would be safe for her to return to her apartment (although she never lived there) and to arrange rights with the kids.
She wont do this and wants my house now.
 
Where I am at

Hi Terry,

I have no issue putting a roof over my kids heads. I will fight for custody but am unlikely to win even though she isn't really up to it.

The reality is that in Ireland - it is highly probable she will win.

In my opinion -she could go back to her apartment as she has a roof over her head already. I lived in my house before we got married or she moved in.

Going to her apartment is a no go for me because in 2010 - I got involved in running the management company - only to find out that a criminal element was involved. I therefore left the management company but the upshot is that it is unsafe for me to be near / around that apartment (this sound a bit mad and I wish it wasn't true).

It would be safe for her to return to her apartment (although she never lived there) and to arrange rights with the kids.
She wont do this and wants my house now.
 
Forgive me if I am speaking out of turn, but leaving the financial aspect out of it, would you and your wife consider marital counselling? Living in a house with such lack of respect and hostility to the point of no verbal communication will not be good for the children.

The apartment seems to be a smokescreen for other issues, and I think a third party could bring some clarity to the situation for you both.
 
Sarah

Hi Sarah,

In October 2012 - we both went to counselling with Aspen. This went on for a number of weeks. Basically - we both went and after each session she rang her Dad outside while I went home. This went on for about 6 to 8 weeks before she decided she didn't like the way it was going and quit.

After that - her Dad got over his work men and they were changing the locks on my house to lock me out. I called the Gardaí and they stopped.

The gardai said that what they were doing wasn't illegal because they had my wife's permission but it was certainly a grey area.

I think the idea of changing the locks was to get me out of the house and then go to court to obtain the house. They would have made the case that since I was already out of the house that she should be awarded it until kids were grown up.

Anyway - since they couldn't legally keep me out of my own house they were forced to go legally against me.

this didn't work on a number of fronts - one of which is that I wrote in a letter to her in July 2012 about complaints that I had - one of which was she lost her head with the children and hit them. She responded to the letter with her own letter in which she agrees that she hits them from time to time. they know I have this letter and a court case isn't necessarily going to be won by them. I also took a photo of an injury she did to my son and have been careful to document all that I can.

Not a good situation.

Anyway - I sent a letter for a deed of separation to them. They to this day have not signed that letter.

Probably more information than you would like to hear.
 
I've slept on your problems Milamber. It is indeed a sad and tragic tale.

Solicitor

It's quite clear to me that you need a really good family law solicitor. You need to have proper concrete advice on your options. You're not going to get that on AAM.

Marriage of 3

From what you've posted it looks like you're in a marriage of 3, and that will not work. Even they way you speak on here about your wife and her father, you see them as a team, and you put yourself as them against you. Looks to me your wife has not grown up. Basically been fully supported by her father and then has never stood on her own two feet and married you and expected the same from you. As SarahMC so eloquently put it, it's amazing how a grown woman has been so infantalised by two adult males.

I'm sure this way of being brought up has had negative results for your wife as she strives to be an adult when she has never actually let be one. It must be very difficult to be so cosseted from the real world to suddently be brought at a sharp focus into it. You have to be understanding of that. And it may be part of the reason that you two are having such marital difficulties. She must be struggling with all of this too.

Wife's letter to you

This you need to keep in a very safe place, this could be key to preventing you losing your home or any other type of bully boy tactics such as changing the locks on your house. No way FIL or your wife will want this dirty linen aired in court. That's your ace. But your solicitor will have to tell you if it's good enough. I agree with your opinion that for young children your wife will probably get custory and 'possession' of the house, but it's not always so clear cut. Possession does not give ownership however. In a custody dispute, depending on the ages of the children, a judge will take into account their wishes along with their best interests.

Also it is not necessarily true that when your kids are 24 that your assets would be split 50/50. Judges nowadays expect women to support themselves too. Another posted mentioned bringing up kids and minding a home as giving some kind of ownership. It's quite the opposite, both those tasks have zero monetary value contrary to the 'special place' of women in the constitution. And as they have zero monetary value, then they do not give a spouse a right to equity in the home. Other things can and do give rise to such equity.

Divorce/Mediation

Do you actually want to stay married to your wife? Only you can answer that. Sounds irreparable to me, but I'm not a marriage counsellor. Hanging in their for the kids, the house where you cannot even speak is not worth it long term. I don't expect you to answer that on here, but it's something you need to think about.

Revenue

My advice here is as another poster mentioned and go the separate tax treatment route. Based on all you've posted I would forthwith cease any payment in relation to the apartment. It is not your problem and neither your FIL or wife seem intent on sorting it out in a mutually beneficial manner. As a husband you are providing a home for everybody down to spending every last penny on said family. More than this no man should be expected. Particulary where one party is not even engaging in a mess of their own making and blaming the other party for not sorting it out for them. That's just pure nonsense. You're wife I'm sorry to say needs to grow up. Normally I wouldn't be so strident on this in relation to a marriage, but what you've posted doesn't sound like a marriage of equals to me.

Andrew at legal in AIB - hope one of you geniuses are reading this.

What nonsense you guys in all banks are spouting at people. Again I'll say it, it's underhand of banks, it's deceitful and it's downright abusive to ordinary people who are struggling to tell them outright lies. How can you guys work like this and sleep at night.

OP is not liable in any way shape of form for his wife's mortgage and he cannot be pursued for same. To any others in the same position, believe nothing of what the banks 'say' to you, if they are not preparted to put it in writing, then you know they are lying.

Reporting FIL to revenue for tax dodges/issues

That only brings you down to his level, no need to do this. In any case it only risks making the situation worse. But your knowledge of it may help in FIL and your wife in not going to law with you.

I hope all of this has been of some help to you but the main advice is to get a good family solicitor so that you really know your options.
 
Bronte

Hi Bronte

First off - thank you for the advice.

On a few issues - first - marriage - is it beyond repair - I don't know. I already have a solicitor but due to the fact we are married - it is probable that she will claim she is entitled to half my assets etc. Very legal problem and I don't know the outcome of this.

On AIB and the way they got back to me - again - very grey area. Basically they won't reply in a formal way only telephone call. I can only guess that this saves them blushes in court should it go that far. It may well be that I end up in court with them - them trying to claim my wife's mistakes are my mistakes because we are married. Who knows what will happen. I do not want to be fighting for my life in a year or two if this comes up.

Your points were well laid out and very clear so again thank you.

Sorry I got back so late also because I was out yesterday.
 
No it's not a grey area with AIB. You have nothing to do with the mortgage and they cannot write to you. In fact they shouldn't have even spoken to you at all. But because you are in all likelyhood in effect now the only hope they have of this loan being paid back they are 'ignoring' their own rules by contacting you. Because in relation to debt collections the rulebook goes out the window (that's my take on it). You cannot end up in court against the AIB, they have no case against you and neither you against them.

MARRIAGE DOES NOT MAKE ONE LIABLE FOR THE DEBTS OF ANOTHER. BUT WHERE THERE ARE FINANCIAL PROBLEMS IN A MARRIAGE IT MAY BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF BOTH PARTIES TO JOINTLY POOL THEIR RESOURCES TO SORT OUT THE MESS.

Can you clarify something for me, has your own solicitor now told you the above?

Also what does he think would happen to the family home etc if you split up? What advice basically have you been given?

If there is a chance for the marriage, then you need to try mediation again.

(The capitals are for everybody not just OP, as so many people come on here not understanding that basic principal, I can only put it down to banks giving disinformation to people.) Milamber a relation of mine was last year told by a bank official in their home that they should stop paying Start mortgages on the second property and instead pay the home loan of the spouse. They tried to hint/insinuate that they too were liable for same due to marriage, but of course it's nonsense.
 
Sorry for being late

Hi Bronte -

My own solicitor has told me that I am not liable for this loan. He said that it was my father in laws issue not mine. Don't know if his partner - now wife is liable if he should pass away. hard to know. didn't ask either.

In relation to the family home - likely that I could lose it. Hard to know - she has a fierce temper and may lose custody which I am seeking too.

Tried mediation - can't see how anything will change.
 
My own solicitor has told me that I am not liable for this loan. He said that it was my father in laws issue not mine. Don't know if his partner - now wife is liable if he should pass away. hard to know. didn't ask either.

.

Well at least you're clear on that which you didn't seem to be earlier. And your solicitor has confirmed it to you. Why are you not asking him all these questions? Maybe you're just double checking on AAM. What has the solicitor advised you to do?

To clarify you latest issue, your wife is liable for the mortgage, if she cannot pay it your FIL has to pay it, if he dies, and has no assets then they will pursue your wife, but if she has no income or assets the bank gets nothing other than the apartment. Basically both people are liable for the loan, but the bank will go after the one with the assets/income.
 
bronte

Hi.

Correct - they will go after FIL first. If he is not around - then my wife.
If she has no income - they will try to get a judgement against me as we are married and she has no income.

At this point - the whole marriage is breaking down and she is getting angry i won't take this on and has started throwing things at me etc.

The whole thing has now gone legal.
 
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