Leaving private sector choppy waters for Civil Service?

SCurry

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Hi there,

Just looking for some opinion on my current situation. I am currently working in IT/private sector west of the Shannon, 35 years old. Been 10 years in my current job and have only had one increase in 7 years (after I asked for it) due to a variety of factors so I'm stuck on 34k much longer than I thought I would be. As I have young family, mortgage etc and like where I live and my life in general I have muddled along without rocking the payrise boat. Also I have no pension options from my employer at all.

I'm currently well down the road towards a possible offer of an Executive Officer job in the Civil Service with a strong possibility of this being in the same town I currently work in. It would mean me leaving IT, which I do like, for something pretty much unknown to me but that said I am open to the change. I like working with people, am interested in plenty of things and so may well really like life in the CS.

My query is though a financial one. I would take a 6k salary drop initially. As a family due to prudent borrowings over the years we can sustain it, my other half also works. My folks and now my wife are in agreement that long term between salary increases, job security and pension they think should the CS offer come I should take it. I think I pretty much agree with them but canvassing some random opinion!

Feel free to chip in! Thanks
 
Go for it. And if u want to progress, it will be well within your capability. Plus cs will love your private sector experience. Pm me if you need more encouragement!
 
Thanks for the encouragement! Yes that's what I am also factoring in, the chance hopefully soon enough to get prompted (2-5 years) to a higher grade as I have an hons degree in IT plus experience in private sector etc. That will put me on money I have no chance of getting if I stay in IT roles in the west.

With the demographic of the PS (aging due to lack of recruitment of late) do you think there will be good scope for promotion?
 
Yes lots of opps and also within quasi related organisations once you are 'in the system' - including secondment on projects.

Biggest difference for you will be the 'work life balance' - you will be able to breath and have a life!

Go for it and also try to chat to any relatives/ acquaintances they might know who already work within cs.

I'd give you the job in an instant - the combination of a brain, outside private experience and your willingness to learn/ progress is the perfect candidate for the cs
 
Yeah there is the work life balance also I find appealing. Possible CS office is 20 mins from me so I can have plenty of free time with the children etc, in IT there is always something new to learn and upskill in which I have found I normally have to do in the evenings and weekends just to keep up. This puts a strain on you especially when you have family commitments. The friends I have in the CS don't seem to have these concerns. Home at 4 or 5 and that is them done.

By the sounds of it you are saying they might look at me with experience in industry and IT and give more responsibility to sooner rather than later which is fine by me. I'm currently the sole IT person for a company with a €7 million turnover and almost 100 staff so I can't imagine it being more responsible than that.

Please God now I get the offer I am hoping for as I think mentally I have decided to roll the dice and go for it!
 
You sound very ambitious and energetic, My fear for you would be, that, it will soon get knocked out of you. Not going to get into Private sector Vs CS, it just is what it is.
I have 2 young kids, One very ambitious and is destined for big things, the other, more laid back, too chilled. I can see a career in the CS looming. Thats just my opinion as someone who has dealing with the CS/Ps on a daily basis. As I say, not getting into it, so no point in the usual suspects having a go.
 
My biggest ambition is to have a consistent income in the west of Ireland to put food on the table and pay the bills. Have time in the evening to go and watch my son play football and my daughter dancing etc. Those are my main ambitions. I'm thinking a steady 9-5 in the CS the long term solution over the more volatile environment I am in now. I'm aware of the people who will say you will get institutionalised in the CS/PS but I'll aim to avoid that, keep busy and try and get a promotion or two in the meantime. I can put extra energies into my family and hobbies after that all going to plan. I suppose I'm not a gambler by nature hence my leaning towards leaving IT for the CS if I get the opportunity. I might do quite well in IT if I stay in it, I might also lose my job in a year and be forced to work a long distance away, that's the reality unfortunately.
 
I suggest you go for it.
It sounds like you have made up your mind but just want some reassurance. You don't have to stay there forever if it doesn't work out. You could also do some freelance work in IT at a later date if you want and the opportunities are there.

It sounds like you are institutionalised in your current you, just about keeping up with work demands and not having any time to step back and look at your future. It is often the case in the SME sector that the sole IT guy or the sole QA guy or the sole whatever guy is not valued as you are considered an overhead, a necessary evil. That's not a good place to be.

At a minimum the new job should give you space and time to plan for your long term future.
 
Hi SCurry, I have a slightly similar background to yourself with a degree in Engineering, except I had been made redundant from my IT role and had opted to take a year or two with very small kids, and a husband that was working 80hr weeks also in IT before the EO offer came up.

I'm now 8 years in the Civil Service and there has been good and bad.

The Good
  1. I have flexible working arrangements which are a serious help with kids and hectic sporting schedules. I've also been lucky with the areas I have worked, in that I have been given the chance to work more to my ability then to my grade. Some areas of the civil service are still very old fashioned but thankfully what I've seen is that the senior people I've worked with are delighted to see intelligent, interested people working with them.
  2. Promotion wise you are in a better position now, as the freeze in the civil service that came in just after I started is only recently relaxed and promotion opportunities are more wide spread. I've recently succeed at promotion to HEO (yeah)
  3. On the money front you will quickly regain the drop in salary, whether you agree or not increments are set so you can clearly see where you might be in 2,3,4 years time (assuming new governments don't go nuts)

The bad
  1. you are coming from an environment where you've probably had great scope to pursue improvements as you feel they have been required. My previous role in IT, I would have been a team lead and if I could show that a process needed improvement I would have been supported in changing it. In the CS its much more rigid, I'm not saying change doesn't happen but its a much less fluid work environment. My hubbie often comments that he would never be able to cut it.

The in between:
  1. I'll be totally honest and admit that I've probably had a couple of years within that 8 where I have drifted along in work, sometimes due to outside family pressure, and sometimes from a lack of motivation within work. But on the whole I've had more years where I've had great opportunities, good challenges and feel I've accomplished something. There certainly isn't the same pressure to perform as in the private sector. I've always accomplished what has been assigned to me but there isn't the same ongoing push to constantly improve performance quarter on quarter that you get in IT particularly in the private sector.
  2. The other thing to be aware of is the "generalist" approach to career development in the Civil Service. The idea being that you can end up in some very diverse roles. I'm currently 4 years in my current role and considering professional certification (paid for by work) but I could potentially be changed position in a couple of years and no longer directly using the certification, it will obviously still stand to me but....
I have to say on the whole I'm happy with where I am. Every now and again I look at the high flying careers of some of my college class mates and wonder. But my current life situation wouldn't mix with mad hours and travel. So for me it was the right decision, just don't tell my Mam, who told me when I was doing my leaving cert to apply straight to the civil service :)
 
Thats quite a responsibility you have at the moment, I some how think your really going to have the mother of all head wrecking moments if the Company make you an offer you cant refuse to keep your skills with them..
 
Some great replies and insight from you all thanks very much.

Purple - very perceptive! You are right I am undervalued here, I'm not paid much more than the receptionist yet the responsibilities are worlds apart, I keep well on top of things and thank God have never had any downtime in all my days here managing the systems but this is taken totally for granted. There's a well known mantra in IT than you're only noticed when things go wrong and when you have everything humming along nicely people wonder what you're doing. I'm one of those. By and large it doesn't bother me and I have alot of autonomy but I don't want to be 45 with college looming for my children trying to scrape the fees together because the overlooked IT guy can't get a decent raise. Also I am currently doing some freelance IT work evenings and weekends with some local places I have made contacts with so I will likely keep those up should I leave for the CS.

Northie thank you very much for all those pros and cons. I agree with pretty much all of it especially about fluid work environment, I'll miss that part of here should I leave but you can't have everything

LS400 yep part of my reason for brainstorming like this with you folks is that I expect that may happen in the mild panic that might ensue. I want to be 100% decided so that if that head wrecking offer comes I can bat it away! One thing I have found out is that if/when they look for my second reference it has to come from my current employer so I will have to break it to them at that point making for an awkward conversation, be no going back at that point.
 
A good work/life balance , incremental salary increases , paid overtime , a pensionable job & partial pay restoration agreed & more on the way hopefully , allied to the protection of being part of a hugely Unionised workforce as opposed to a job where you appear to be undervalued & underpaid.

I think your mind is already made up.
 
You will get all the security the comes with being in a CS role but there are some-things that you will need to deal with

Firstly, it's unlikely that the CS role will be as flexible as a role in a private sector IT company can be. It's likely to be very defined, rigid and don't rock the boat.

Secondly, the public sector is outsourcing more and more of its IT, especially anything new. Probably a way of getting around hiring restrictions. I'm not aware of jobs being outsourced but certainly I've been involved in many tenders (as an IT provider) where we take on the creation and running of systems. It maybe that what will be left in the long term is the managing of suppliers rather then the management of IT

Personally, I think you run the risk of being very bored but there is nothing to stop you perhaps doing other things outside of work, either consultancy or volunteering for organisations where your skills can be well used
 
I work in the Public Service with IT guys who graduated from the Private Sector. They have made the transition without apparent problems. Most of them are monuments to boredom and are the "senior boys" who continue to wear jeans+teeshirt instead of the requisite shirt, tie + slacks. It took some time for them to settle and get away from their previous lingo of using "awesome" and "amazing" in nearly every sentence. When they arrived they were world-changers as far as they themselves were concerned. They have found their level at this stage and have integrated like they were always there.

One piece of advice I would give to SCurry is to keep his part-time work to himself and not seen to be doing some of it during the working day under any circumstances. Furthermore, keep eyes and ears open and think before he speaks. The PS is a good place to be, but tread carefully until he knows his audience better than he knows himself. Take nothing for granted and beware what might happen. I say the foregoing in good faith.
 
Hi SCurry

My tuppence (as a civil servant)

I would look into the Department and the office you are likely to be employed in in a bit more detail. You are clearly an intelligent person and ambitious person. If you were in Dublin or Cork, I would tell you to go for it, as even if you ended up in a job and an office that you weren't happy in, you could maximise the positive bits for a few years (time with kids, perhaps opportunities to study for further or different qualifications that would be financially covered by your Department) and hopefully get a promotion a few years down the line into another Department or office. However, it sounds as though you are in or near a small town with one particular office and not really in a position to move. I would be very careful in that circumstance. Most of the civil service is fine - fewer and fewer dead end jobs and old fashioned attitudes to work. But its not uniformly positive and offices outside the main cities can be sometimes end up being backwaters with very little innovation and a very negative work ethic. I'm saying this as a civil servant who really likes their job and feels there is a lot of scope for pursuing improvements, inputting into policy, making a positive difference and progressing my career, so I am as far from 'civil servants are all lazy and do nothing and I wouldn't work there if you paid me double' as it gets (ironically, given your reasons for wanting to accept a CS job, the only thing I don't like is that things are so busy that I am rarely home before 7, so don't get as much time with my children as I would like!). I would think hard about whether you are willing to move from where you are over time as promotion opportunities come up. If you are going into a small office, promotion opportunities may be rare so you'd realistically be looking at open or inter-departmental competitions, either generalist or specialist, if you want to move reasonably fast and that does require mobility.
 
Delighted to see your excellent feedback. Hope it helps

Unsure regarding the turnover/ staff ratio. Know a public sector org with over 250 million turnover incl capital exp and circa 850 staff - with 7 staff in IT...
 
I notice you're stuck on 34K for years per your post. I would have thought people working in IT would be on a much higher rate. You might be entitled to join the CS with credit from your degree and experience. This is something you can take up with HR if you take up your new job. I have seen several first-timers to the CS start several increments up.

On 34K, I would have no problem informing current employer of your new job (once offered). You might be able to get a redundancy deal (I've seen it done). If you do get a few bob, keep it to yourself. You're joining as an Executive Officer and parachuting into an area where many would not have been successful in internal promotion competitions. Like I said in my previous post (and speaking from hard experience) there will be some green eyes looking towards you. Also, remember your new colleagues working as EO probably were promoted internally on their experience only. You could be eyed as a threat to their future careers.

I'm not trying to frighten you off, but I've seen all of above and I even came across cast iron cases for dismissal of bullying staff where more senior management would not press the "sack" button.
 
This thread gets better as it goes thanks all. Fortunately some of my private sector experience before my current job was with large multinationals so I have seen how some of the politics of promotion works and causes friction etc. I am a pretty inoffensive type and pretty sure will make friends easily in there (if I get the offer) although I know there are bound to be some put out especially if I parachute into a position they wanted, you can't control that.

It will be an office outside of the main cities mammyof2 with a bit of luck, appreciate that info regarding the possible environment, it's just something I'll have to deal with should it arise and perhaps promotion might not be too easy but I've not got a crystal ball so just doing as much due diligence as I can. Where I am now there definitely aint any promotion of that I am sure. I have been studying on and off with IT related courses since I left college and if I thought doing something else would help me once I was in the CS I would certainly give it a shot, especially if they fund some of it.

Leper yes 34k, people think when you tell them you work in IT that you are on big bucks, not in the west bar a small number of jobs. I'm pulling in maybe an extra 3k in side jobs which helps certainly but can sometimes mean a 12 hour day. That said if my company had been giving even modest increases since I have been here I would be on 40k but its been the opposite "you're lucky to have a job" type stuff since the downturn and still prevails. Lots have left, some for the Public Sector.
 
Oh to be back again... I am going to go against the trend here. I joined the public sector over 10 years ago. Also a former IT graduate. I am on the same grade for the last 10 years. I had no incentive to move up grades as I was going to get my increment every year anyway and whilst kids were young etc. I became complacent. Now I'm in the position that there are no more increments to be had so if I stay here for another 20 years I will not get an extra penny other than what is agreed nationally. Any promotional opportunities (few and far between) seem to be 'closed shops' and often underhand. Any innovative ideas are not encouraged. Or worse, taken and claimed by someone else. I have come to accept a certain level of inefficiencies but the frustration that I still feel 10 years later is very real. I could go on and on about all the issues.

On the plus side I did receive my increments every year so the frustration of not progressing only kicked-in 2 years ago. The hours are good. I have managed to be off 6 weeks every summer between parental and shorter working year. Take parental leave whenever I want. Flexi time. 30 days holidays. My department is relaxed. Work 15 minutes from home. I learnt to come to work every day and walk out the door every evening and accept that I am well paid for what I do. If they do not want to use my skills or knowledge or experience that's their loss! I would love to leave but have no-where to go with my IT skills not kept up to date and would find it impossible to get the same terms and conditions. I have heard mention of 'Golden handcuffs' which describes my situation exactly. Will keep trying to get promoted but in the meantime will take all the perks that are going.

Sorry for the long reply. If you do take the job keep your IT work going if at all possible to ensure your skills are kept up to date. Go for any and every promotional opportunity. You have a chance if you climb the ladder quickly but I think now I am on the long and leisurely route upwards as it appears if you are too long at one grade it is hard to get the opportunity to take the next step. Not sure what I need to do to get to the next step though. Join the Union (although kills me to give that advice but I know what they are like if you are out). Take a deep breath and hope that you are not sitting there in 10 years time feeling like me!

Good luck with whatever you decide...
 
Without knowing the details of your current role, with 10 years experience in IT, to me it looks like you're getting way below the market rate where you are. Graduates joining here will all be on more than that within the first year.
 
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