Judgment Mortgage

loulou117 said:
This is only coming to my attention now for a couple of reasons, firstly, i never really understood a judgment mortgage and i had completely forgotten about it and secondly, i was hoping to avail of the DNR this year but this loan is now a secured loan as there is a jm that exists. And clearly, from my information today the current creditor isn't bothered and hasn't gone to the trouble of transferring it into their name. And i feel, the jm should be removed as the old creditor sold my debt and i nolonger deal with them...
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You can write to the new company that is collecting you judgment and request up to date details of your account when they took it over from the company that took out the judgement. You know what you have been paying and see if this tally’s up with your payments then. Also you can ask them to see the authority have they from the court to collect your judgement debt.

Tell them that you will be stopping all payments forthwith to them until your receive the above documents. That should get some results from them. Make sure you keep all letters to them.
 
Thankyou Kev, you are so so right, i do need to know does this current creditor have the legal authority to collect my judgment debt, i registered posted a letter to them yesterday, under section 4 data protection act, to forward me all information regarding me/my debt and to clear things up, i am going straight into the district court and i am going to ask the clerk, who has the authority to collect my judgment debt? Thanks Kev.
 
I have just found out from the district court my judgment order (court instalment order) for this debt is still in the old creditors name!!!!

So, when reassigning a debt (and in my case, a judgment debt enforced by the courts) can a new creditor just start collecting that debt or do they have to get authority from the courts?? does the reassignment process include the courts (especially when it involves a judgment debt,court instalment order)??
 
Normally this crowd who are based in Bray, am I right?

Anyways their normal MO is to buy the debt before it gets to court so they can get judgement in their own name and then secure JM/Instalment orders etc. Also normally they don't buy debts that are post judgement stage so this is all very odd even for them.
 
ok i have some more up to date information after talking to the civil office. The civil office have confirmed that all records are in the original creditors name (cash flow),i explained this debt was sold 2yrs ago (reassignment) and they explained the new creditor should have informed that office and changed the name on the summons, and she advised i get legal advice and get this back in front of the judge.

So the new creditor did not secure the jm/instalment order in the reassignment.
 
Ah so it is cashflow who are the original judgement holder? Ok now that is starting to make sense.

This is going to get messy. As cash flow are in receivership I doubt the receiver will co-operate as it will cost them money to have the JM removed i.e. legal fees and PRAI fees. You will have to force them to remove the JM by going into court.

Now you need to find a solicitor who does not handle applications on behalf of the banks in the local courts. They will not want to cause a problem for their bread and butter business. Also some solicitors will not deal with you for various moral reasons. You need to choose carefully.
 
Yes, they have sold the debt on with the judgement attached, but did not go to court to get it transferred into the new company name as it would cost court fees that they did not want to pay.

What you need to know now what was the figure that as sold on to the new owner and does it concur with what you have paid the company that took out the judgment. Also check if they have added on the debt any extra money the debt such as interest.
 
Right, i have rang a couple of solicitors and they all say they are not sure of the process, so getting legal advice is going to be difficult.

So, i have decided i will go into the district court clerk now and issue proceedings with all the information i have now. I need to get back in front of the judge asap.
 
Well kev, this is the difficulty, time back in 2008 i paid cash flow with a swipe card at the post office and i have no idea of the total amount, that incl. the instalment order weekly fee..... All i know is, the new creditor may have the jm but through this assignment of process they didn't follow procedures and should have changed the name on the summons(informed the civil office) and jm not transferred in there name. It is proving difficult to get some advice from a solicitor and i think i just have to go to court myself and discuss this with the judge
 
You should be able to get them figure from your bank statements? What does the judgment actually say about the payments you to make to the company that took out the judgement. You should only pay what the judgment order on it and no more. You need to know the amount you have paid the company that took out the judgment on you as well as what you have paid so far with new company.

Write to the new company for a copy of up-to-date payments you have made to them as well as the transferred figure that was assigned to them. They must provide you with this information and you will need to know the figures before going to court.
 
Couple of interesting things now, just back from the distrist court civil office and explained to the clerk the situation and the only way i can get in front of the judge is through a varying order so i have done so, my date is 12th feb.

Secondly, this current creditor seems to have left ireland?? can the debt collection co. still collect this debt?
Also, the current creditor should have informed the civil office that the name on the summons has changed.
And as far as the jm the clerk said, mention to the judge but only the applicant can remove it, so i discuss that on the day.
 
Make sure you post the copy summons by registered post and get the declaration of service signed. Get the whole lot back to the clerk within 7 days of the date of the hearing.
 
yes, i will register post to their solicitors tomorrow and i know a peace commissioner. The clerk found it all very interesting and he to, said the current creditor should have informed the civil office. I will question the jm on the day and i will inform the judge this current creditor did not follow procedures during the reassignment and they should have informed the civil office the summons needed to be althered(change of creditor).

Last day the barrister that sits at the front spoke for them and i have a couple of questions so maybe a further date will be required and for them to have counsel to answer? i don't know.... but, i do dread these days but it has to be done.
 
I just found out the creditor will be nolonger collecting this debt and they will mark this debt settled in full (great news) as far as the judgment mortgage goes they said, this has nothing got to do with them as the old creditor applied for this and it stays in place for 12yrs.

Ok, so how do i go about removing this jm as they have now marked this debt as settled in full? also, just wondering do i need to attend court next week?
 
Very difficult to remove a Jm without the consent of the owner of the JM. Why do you need this removed? A Court can do nothing in this respect as the JM was validly charged on the property.
 
http://www.landdirect.ie/eng/Legal_...of_2009_Land_Registration_Rules_No_2_2009.pdf
21. The Land Registration Rules 1972 are amended by the substitution of the
following for Rule 121 of those Rules:
“Application to cancel judgment mortgage on grounds of invalidity
121. (1) Where an entry of notice of the deposit of an affidavit of
judgment under the Judgment Mortgage (Ireland) Act 1850 or an entry of
judgment mortgage under section 116 of the Land and Conveyancing Law
Reform Act 2009 is made in the register of any property, a registered owner,
or any other person interested, who claims that the deposit and the notice
thereof in the register do not create a valid burden or that the judgment
mortgage is not a valid burden may apply to the Authority for the cancellation of the entry.
(2) The application shall be in writing and shall state the grounds on
which the applicant claims that the entry should be cancelled, as, for
instance, that a specified provision of the Judgment Mortgage (Ireland)
Acts, 1850 and 1858, has not been complied with or that the judgment
debtor had no estate or interest in the property or no estate or interest
capable of being affected by registration of the affidavit, or judgment mortgage and shall state the facts on which he relies in support of his claim.
(3) Where the Authority is satisfied on the facts stated that a prima facie
case for cancellation of the entry has been made, notice of the application
and of the cancellation proposed to be made shall be given to the judgment
creditor and, in default of objection thereto by him within the time specified
by the notice, the entry shall be cancelled.
(4) Every objection to a proposed cancellation shall be in writing and
shall be signed by the judgment creditor or his solicitor. It shall state the
grounds of the objection and the facts relied on in support thereof.
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If they don't object the application will go through.
 
Time said:
http://www.landdirect.ie/eng/Legal_...of_2009_Land_Registration_Rules_No_2_2009.pdf


If they don't object the application will go through.
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Right i'm confused... i do want this jm removed as already said, that debt is now marked settled in full and there is 7yrs remaining for it to stay there and what if i want to sell my property in the mean time? Also, cashflow are not in business and i cannot get any consent regarding the cancellation. But thanks Time, i will check out that website and i think i might need legal advice for this. Oh and as far as attending court, the creditor told me to attend so i can consent to it being struck out.
 
loulou117 said:
Right i'm confused... i do want this jm removed as already said, that debt is now marked settled in full and there is 7yrs remaining for it to stay there and what if i want to sell my property in the mean time? Also, cashflow are not in business and i cannot get any consent regarding the cancellation. But thanks Time, i will check out that website and i think i might need legal advice for this. Oh and as far as attending court, the creditor told me to attend so i can consent to it being struck out.
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It is great news that they the debt has been recorded as fully settled, but was it the court that has advised you that it is now settled. Also have you got something in writing to confirmed that the judgment is recorded as fully settled.

As far as I am aware when a debt is settled in full it should be crossed out on your deeds and will have no bearing on you selling your property. The reason the creditor put the judgment charge against your property was because they wanted to make sure that they got their money if the debt was not settled beforehand the sale of your home therefore they would get their money from the proceeds of the sale of your home.

I would attend court next weeks in order to protect your interest ie make sure that everything is done legally by the creditor.
 
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