Is it time for wage increases?

[Purple]

I assumed a €14ph rate. Could be a bit more or a bit less. He is 27yrs old, lives in a provincal town (Athlone to be precise), how much do you think a qualified mechanic, working for a brand franchise should command?

Many mechanics service and work on cars in the evening and/or weekends.
My friend is an electrician. He makes more doing nixers than he gets from his day job. Yes, he pays tax on his nixers. A mechanic should be in the same bracket. If he chooses not to then that's fine but don't play the poor mouth.

 

[TheBigShort]

I took all of the information you had given and drew a conclusion

Yes, a dumb and ignorant conclusion.

That's not attacking them, it's just suggesting they do what other people do who want to earn more.

Ignorance to fore again. Dont you think most people already know that? Its the failure to give due regard to people's personal circumstances, background, education, lifestyle, family wealth (if any), and your fawning to 'the market', that is dumb.

I can't go on strike and picket reality.

You could, if you really wanted to, if you believed you were being screwed, you absolutely could.
But obviously that is not the case, your market value has crashed.

 

[PGF2016]

I think this is harsh to be fair. Different if he had 8 kids maybe, but people have kids either planned or unplanned all the time.

Yeah, I agree one unplanned event can happen... but to then to injure yourself doing a dangerous activity when you have responsibilities is a bit much.

 

[TheBigShort]

Many mechanics service and work on cars in the evening and/or weekends.
My friend is an electrician. He makes more doing nixers than he gets from his day job. Yes, he pays tax on his nixers. A mechanic should be in the same bracket. If he chooses not to then that's fine but don't play the poor mouth.

Yes, because mechanics lives have one sole purpose - to work evenings and weekends, on top of 9-6pm Mon-Fri.
Unfortunately, farming, and healthy living (such as his personal relationship with someone of the opposite sex) keep interfering.
In any case, who is putting on the poor mouth? His circumstances arose in this instance with regard to 'sickies' being taken. As his employer wasn't paying him, I assume his absence from work is not calculated as a sick days? Unlike public service, where pay is afforded by the employer and as such, sick days in the public service will always be calculated as a higher amount.

 

[TheBigShort]

Yeah, I agree one unplanned event can happen... but to then to injure yourself doing a dangerous activity when you have responsibilities is a bit much.

Im sorry, but he could have injured himself playing hurling or football. Or even at work. Should we stop all activities in which people could get hurt?
To be honest, I dont know if he had serious illness cover or not. I just assumed, given his circumstances that he had not.
The point was made about 'sickies'. I was just pointing out that as his employer was not paying him for his absence, then his employer could not calculate his absence as a cost lost.

 

[Purple]

Yes, because mechanics lives have one sole purpose - to work evenings and weekends, on top of 9-6pm Mon-Fri.

I disagree. People should have a work-life balance so that they can strive to be happy but each to their own.

Unfortunately, farming, and healthy living (such as his personal relationship with someone of the opposite sex) keep interfering.

So he is a farmer as well as a mechanic. There’s his additional income.

In any case, who is putting on the poor mouth? His circumstances arose in this instance with regard to 'sickies' being taken. As his employer wasn't paying him, I assume his absence from work is not calculated as a sick days? Unlike public service, where pay is afforded by the employer and as such, sick days in the public service will always be calculated as a higher amount.

He wasn’t, you were.

 

[Purple]

I agree that there has been a general move from a return on labour to a return on capital. It’s happened since the 80’s and early 90’s, mainly since the opening up of South East Asia and a huge increase on capital due to their very low wage costs. On a global level, as per your original post, this has resulted in massive wage increases, just not in the part of the globe where wages were already high.


So, in answer to your first post yes; it is time for wages to increase and there have been increasing well ahead of inflation for the vast majority of those in the labour force (or “workers” as you like to call them) in the world. Just not for those who are already very highly paid. Everyone in Ireland, even those who have no job, are very highly paid in the global context.

BS, any chance you can reply to this and leave the poor farmer mechanic to his low income and adventure sports?

 

[PGF2016]

Im sorry, but he could have injured himself playing hurling or football. Or even at work. Should we stop all activities in which people could get hurt?

Was it Rio Ferdinand that hurt his knee reaching for the TV remote? All activities can't be stopped. Something as dangerous as mountain biking is a bit much. Where is the line drawn? I don't know.

Also, if he injured himself at work I assume he'd be covered.

The main point in my comments is that we shouldn't be setting ourselves up for financial failure.

 

[Firefly]

His circumstances arose in this instance with regard to 'sickies' being taken.

He injured himself in a biking accident and just like the other examples you gave earlier, these are not "sickies". We all know what "sickies" are...people not bothering to come to work and feigning sickness.

 

[TheBigShort]

So he is a farmer as well as a mechanic. There’s his additional income.

A small family farm, he helps his father out. He may inherit it one day, or partof, but I don't know if he receives any income from it.

He wasn’t, you were.

Where did I put on the poor mouth? Simply presenting a set of circumstances and realities is not putting on the poor mouth.

 

[Purple]

Yes, a dumb and ignorant conclusion.

That's a bit harsh.

Ignorance to fore again. Dont you think most people already know that? Its the failure to give due regard to people's personal circumstances, background, education, lifestyle, family wealth (if any), and your fawning to 'the market', that is dumb.

People's personal circumstances have no bearing on what people should be paid.

You could, if you really wanted to, if you believed you were being screwed, you absolutely could.

What, picket reality? Do you also agree with tilting at windmills?

But obviously that is not the case, your market value has crashed.

Yep. As the market collapsed so did my value.

 

[Firefly]

Yep. As the market collapsed so did my value.

I've noticed it for some time, you're not the man you were

 

[Purple]

I've noticed it for some time, you're not the man you were

You better believe it!

 

[TheBigShort]

He injured himself in a biking accident and just like the other examples you gave earlier, these are not "sickies". We all know what "sickies" are...people not bothering to come to work and feigning sickness.

Fair enough. But the point im making is that as public servants receive pay while out sick (genuine or not) and as such total sick days per employee will be far greater than private sector where employers may not pay for such absences (genuine or not).
I recall listening to a Newstalk item, Chris Donoghue with three guests discussing a newspaper headline about sick leave in the public service. Outraged they were. Until a listener text a question if any of the panel ever took a 'sickie'. All of a sudden, the tone of the discussion changed from serious indignation, to high humour as each panelist coyed away from giving a straight no answer.
'Sickies' are a disgrace in the public sector, but nudge-nudge, wink-wink, in the private sector.

 

[PGF2016]

Fair enough. But the point im making is that as public servants receive pay while out sick (genuine or not) and as such total sick days per employee will be far greater than private sector where employers may not pay for such absences (genuine or not).
I recall listening to a Newstalk item, Chris Donoghue with three guests discussing a newspaper headline about sick leave in the public service. Outraged they were. Until a listener text a question if any of the panel ever took a 'sickie'. All of a sudden, the tone of the discussion changed from serious indignation, to high humour as each panelist coyed away from giving a straight no answer.
'Sickies' are a disgrace in the public sector, but nudge-nudge, wink-wink, in the private sector.

Yes but the public sector sick day rate is twice the private sector (No source. Feel free to Google). It's not an issue in any private sector company I've worked in. It's ridiculous in the public sector.

 

[TheBigShort]

People's personal circumstances have no bearing on what people should be paid.

How much should a qualified mechanic (with roughly seven yrs exp and excellent work ethos) command per hour in a provincial town like Athlone, working for an internationally established branded franchise?

Yep. As the market collapsed so did my value.

Yes, I figured that. Nothing to do with you being rubbish at your job afterall. Im sure you are good at it.

 

[Purple]

How much should a qualified mechanic (with roughly seven yrs exp and excellent work ethos) command per hour in a provincial town like Athlone, working for an internationally established branded franchise?

He has skills which allow him to earn more if he chooses to. That's the point I'm making. If he chooses to work on his family farm, be involved in the community, spend more time with his kids etc that's fine, he may well have a better and happier life doing do
so, but he has the option of making more money and chooses not to do so.

Yes, I figured that. Nothing to do with you being rubbish at your job afterall. Im sure you are good at it.

Thanks. My skills and ability are worth what the market decides they are worth. I have the choice of trying something different or trying to help improve the trading position of my company. They are my choices. That's reality and there's no point in pretending otherwise. I can't hold a gun to the head of my fellow citizens and demand they pay me more.

 

[Purple]

I agree that there has been a general move from a return on labour to a return on capital. It’s happened since the 80’s and early 90’s, mainly since the opening up of South East Asia and a huge increase on capital due to their very low wage costs. On a global level, as per your original post, this has resulted in massive wage increases, just not in the part of the globe where wages were already high.


So, in answer to your first post yes; it is time for wages to increase and there have been increasing well ahead of inflation for the vast majority of those in the labour force (or “workers” as you like to call them) in the world. Just not for those who are already very highly paid. Everyone in Ireland, even those who have no job, are very highly paid in the global context.

BS, any chance you can reply to this?

 

[TheBigShort]

He has skills which allow him to earn more if he chooses to.

Not in Athlone, where his family ties are, which are very important factors in most peoples lives.

but he has the option of making more money

or trying to help improve the trading position of my company

And if he chooses, like you, to help improve the trading position of his company, what then? How much can he expect to command in a hourly rate?

 

[Purple]

And if he chooses, like you, to help improve the trading position of his company, what then?

Then he has to stick with it.