Help in taxation for rental income

Discussion in 'Property investment and tenants' rights' started by bibiphoque, Jul 31, 2012.

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  1. Nutso

    Nutso Frequent Poster

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    Do you have any credit card statements or bank statements that would show the transactions? I don't have all my receipts either, as we never intended to rent, however I went through credit card and bank statements and found most of the transactions, which I think is also considered proof of purchase.
    I suppose you could make a guesstimate of the total cost but it would have to be a realistic figure.
     
  2. superfan

    superfan Frequent Poster

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    No,unfortunately not.I probably kept them for the 1st year or so but don't know where they are now.
    I wasn't planning on ever renting my house out either,it was just how things panned out..
     
  3. Ciall

    Ciall Guest

    I made a number of small purchases for the apartment in 2011(cushions, rugs, bathroom fittings) which I can track through credit card statements.
    Can 100% of these "frivolous" purchases be deducted for tax purposes and will the credit card statements do me in the event of an audit.
    I stupidly didn't keep the receipts.
     
  4. superfan

    superfan Frequent Poster

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    Just to clarify nutso,are you saying that if the furniture cost,say,€8000,that you reduce the cost by 25% for 2 years to €6000 and then take 12.5% for the next 6 years?
     
  5. Nutso

    Nutso Frequent Poster

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    Yes, you would take €6000 as the starting cost. Then deduct €1,000 (12.5% of original cost - not your new starting figure) over 6 years. This was how I was advised to do it by my tax accountant.
     
  6. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

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    Is this definitively correct? I'm not so sure. Depreciation is a business accounting concept that has little relevance for privately-owned consumer goods.

    I would argue that the appropriate starting cost should be, not the depreciated cost, but a fair valuation of the contents items at the date of first letting.

    Take the example of a damaged badly piece of furniture that happens to be a year old. It would be a nonsense to assume that it has retained 87.5% of its original value.
     
  7. Nutso

    Nutso Frequent Poster

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    I can only tell you that I got specialist advice on the matter and this is what I was advised to do. In my case items were in use for 3 years but all furniture was in good condition and appliances in perfect working order.

    In the same manner, new appliances / furniture can only be written off at 12.5% per year, regardless of their state at the end of the year until they are replaced.
     
  8. mandelbrot

    mandelbrot Former user

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    Wear & tear allowances under S.284 are only ever granted on the basis of the actual cost of the asset in question - S.284(2)(ad) "Where capital expenditure is incurred on or after 4 December 2002 on the provision of machinery or plant a wear and tear allowance for a chargeable period will be of an amount equal to 12.5 per cent of the actual cost of the machinery or plant"

    I think we had a thread on here before about the allowability or otherwise of capital allowances on fixtures & fittings in houses that were originally PPRs and subsequently become rental properties. S.284(6) & (7) state
    "Wear and tear allowances are also available in respect of capital expenditure incurred on fixtures and fittings (for example, furniture, kitchen appliances, etc) provided by a lessor for the purposes of furnishing rented residential accommodation. The allowances are available only where the expenditure is incurred wholly and exclusively in respect of a house used solely as a dwelling which is, or is to be, let as a furnished house on bona fide commercial terms in the open market."

    A strict interpretation of this would suggest that no wear & tear may be due, but Revenue policy would appear to be that it is only equitable to allow wear & tear.

    S.287 sets out provisions for wear & tear allowances to be deemed to have been made. It states inter alia;
    "The normal wear and tear allowance for a chargeable period is to be calculated on the basis that —
    • the trade had been carried on by the person concerned ever since that person acquired the machinery or plant in such circumstances that the full amount of the profits or gains of the trade were chargeable to tax,
    • since its acquisition by the person concerned the machinery or plant had been used by that person solely for the purposes of the trade,
    • a proper claim had been made by the person for a wear and tear allowance in respectof the machinery or plant for every relevant chargeable period,"


    The meaning of all of which is that in the case of a PPR becoming a rental property, if any wear & tear is to be allowed it should be calculated on the basis that 12.5% the original cost p.a. has already been claimed for the prior years of ownership. So in the case of an asset that was 3 years old at time of first letting, it will be introduced at its original cost, already written down by 37.5%, with 62.5% remaining to be written off over the remaining 5 years.

    (All of the quotes above are taken from Revenue's Notes for Guidance (http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/law/notes-for-guidance/tca/part09.pdf), as they read more easily than the actual legislation itself.)
     
  9. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

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    Interesting, thanks. I must re-read those notes when I get a chance.
     
  10. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

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    I don't think that's correct. It would mean that if you rent a house after 8 years you would be entitled to write of zero for wear and tear. That link you've made doesn't look like it's for ordinary house rentals.

    This thread has become very complicated and difficult to follow. It would be better if people have questions that they start their own thread. Also looks to me like a lot of people would do well to hire an accountant. It's a tax deductable expense and won't break the bank.
     
  11. mandelbrot

    mandelbrot Former user

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    I'm afraid it's quite correct Bronte! Almost all assets which attract capital allowances have an 8 year tax life (and in the context of this thread, it is all such assets), so in the situation you've outlined above the owner is deemed to already have realised the value of the asset over the 8 years they've already owned it.

    The link I've made is to the sections of the taxes acts that govern wear & tear allowances for machinery & plant - principally S.284 "Wear and tear allowances".
    S.284(6) and S.284(7) state that S.284 applies to lettings of premises which are taxable under Case V. (Furniture & fittings in a let property are classed as plant.)

    It probably is a bit complicated for a lay person, but the entire tax system is governed by complicated legislation, which is exactly why people pay accountants & tax advisors!
     
  12. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

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    Worth noting also that some aspects are governed not by legislation but by Revenue edicts in the form of Tax Brieifings, eBriefs and other sources. One relatively recent example was the Revenue statement that NPPR was not an allowable deduction against rental income.
     
  13. mandelbrot

    mandelbrot Former user

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    Good point, and one which serves to highlight the benefit of using someone whose bread & butter is to keep abreast of these things... good accountants always pay for themselves...
     
  14. murphyep

    murphyep Guest

    Hi Folks,
    I have a rental property which I purchased in 2007
    The rent is currently 650 per month.
    The mortgage is 800 per month.
    Which is a shortfall of 150 per month( 1800 per year).

    Can this shortfall be written off my tax bill at the end of the year?

    Regards,
    Ed
     
  15. panindub

    panindub Frequent Poster

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    Hi Murphyep,

    You can only allowed claim 75% of the Interest on the mortgage, not the full mortgage payment (Capital + Interest).
     
  16. elcato

    elcato Moderator

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    Murphyep

    Not to be too harsh on new users but have you actually read the thread from the start ? All the information you need is there.
     
  17. Delboy

    Delboy Frequent Poster

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    folks, quick question
    Tax liability due by tomorrow for 2011 liability.
    But do you also have to pay a 'preliminary' tax for 2012 (best estimate of what is due for 2012?)
     
  18. Dermot

    Dermot Frequent Poster

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    Preliminary tax has also to be lodged with Revenue tomorrow. There are 3 ways of working out how you will be safe with the amount you pay in preliminary tax. I go for paying 100% of what I paid in 2011.
     
  19. mandelbrot

    mandelbrot Former user

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    Quick answer, Yes!

    The preliminary tax should be:
    90% of the 2012 liability (how good are you at guessing), OR
    100% of the 2011 liability.

    Or failing that, whatever you can afford to pay along with the balance of your 2011 liability... they don't generally go looking for interest on underpaid preliminary tax unless it's substantial money. But they might, so if you can afford to, you should pay the 100%.
     
  20. Delboy

    Delboy Frequent Poster

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    thanks Mandelbrot. I'm advising a mate on this as they dont have a clue so just reading up as quick as I can as I know the deadline is tomorrow

    2 other questions -
    I have their PPS number but cant get them registered online through RAS. Is their some sort of trick to this? What category shoudl I select as none seem to work with their number!
    Form IT10 says you should register (TR1) with the local tax office when the rental income starts to come in. I always thought the only registration needed was with the PRTB
     
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