first post on how long a judgment lasts for

Discussion in 'Mortgage arrears & negative equity case studies' started by Brendan Burgess, Mar 12, 2012.

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  1. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess New Member

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    There have been various questions on askaboutmoney along the lines of "If I leave the country with unpaid debts, can they still chase me after 10 years?"

    So can anyone clarify the legal position, ideally, with links to the legislation.

    Johnny leaves Ireland for Australia owing unsecured debt of €5,000
    Johnny just has a credit card and overdraft debt and leaves the country.

    Does this disappear after a while?

    Mary 1 has a shortfall of €100,000 arising from the shortfall on her mortgage.
    She just gave the keys back to the bank. They sold the house and the shortfall is €100,000

    Mary 2 has a judgement against her for €150,000
    Mary 2 handed back the keys but the bank registered a judgement against her.

    Paddy has a judgement mortgage on his property of €30,000
    A credit card company got a judgement against Paddy of €30,000 and registered it against his home. Does it disappear after x years?

    Can the bank do anything to extend the statute of limitations?
    If the bank continues to write to the debtor asking for the money does it keep it alive? When does the period start? Is it from the date the debt is incurred or the date the bank stops chasing it?
     
  2. mf1

    mf1 Frequent Poster

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    In broad terms...............

    See the Statute of Limitations 1957 - amended in 1991 and 2000.
    Civil Liability Act 1961
    Civil Liability and Courts Act 2004


    A creditor can seek to recover a debt from a debtor for a period of 6 years from the date of the accrual of the debt. That date can be a different date for different debts - when does a credit card debt become due? At the date of the statement? When the debt is called in?

    A debtor may also extend that time period by acknowledging the debt or making a part payment.

    If a debtor does not pay, then a creditor can sue - within 6 years of the accrual of the debt. In broad terms, the debtor must be served (usually by registered post) with the Summons/Civil Bill and, in the High Court, a Summary Summons. Service of a Summary Summons is personal unless an alternative method is ordered by the Court. So the debtor must be made aware of the proceedings. Where service is not possible, a debtor can look for an order for substituted service - i.e. service by ordinary post, by advertisement in the paper etc.,etc. A Court should always be satisfied that a debtor has received notice of the proceedings.

    If a debtor ( now a Defendant) does not defend the proceedings, a judgment will be obtained. A judgment lasts for 12 years only - after that it expires.
    And no, there is no such thing as “just handing back the keys”. A mortgage attaches to a property but, except in very unusual circumstances, belongs to and will follow the property owner, unless agreed otherwise.
    So, in answer to the above:

    Johnny leaves Ireland for Australia owing unsecured debt of €5,000
    Johnny just has a credit card and overdraft debt and leaves the country.
    Does this disappear after a while?


    The debtors have 6 years from the accrual of the debt to issue and serve the proceedings. An Irish Court probably does not have jurisdiction over a non resident for a debt and , for this amount of money, is unlikely to go to the trouble of issuing proceedings in Australia – if they can even track Johnny to an address.

    So – Johnny does a runner and the debt dies after 6 years. So – any downside? If Johnny needs to come back? If Johnny cares about his ICB rating? Is it conceivable that if he looks for credit in Australia that someone could run a search on his Irish ICB?

    Mary 1 has a shortfall of €100,000 arising from the shortfall on her mortgage.
    She just gave the keys back to the bank. They sold the house and the shortfall is €100,000


    She owes the bank €100,000.00. They can get a judgment against her. They need to have an address for her – or ask the Court to allow them serve her in an alternative manner. If she has other property assets, a judgment mortgage can be attached.

    Mary 2 has a judgement against her for €150,000
    Mary 2 handed back the keys but the bank registered a judgement against her.

    As above.

    Paddy has a judgement mortgage on his property of €30,000
    A credit card company got a judgement against Paddy of €30,000 and registered it against his home. Does it disappear after x years?

    It does not disappear- but it ceases to have any effect after 12 years. So, if he is selling 14 years after the judgment was obtained, he can take steps to have it removed.

    Can the bank do anything to extend the statute of limitations?
    If the bank continues to write to the debtor asking for the money does it keep it alive? When does the period start? Is it from the date the debt is incurred or the date the bank stops chasing it?


    The bank can institute proceedings within 6 years of the accrual of the debt. That stops the Statute of Limitations running. The debtor can extend the 6 year period by acknowledging the debt (must be in writing)or part paying the debt.

    mf
     
  3. munchy

    munchy Frequent Poster

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    Brendan and Mf1 this has been so very helpful, thank you.
    I suppose I am wondering about whether a bank can attach a judgement against any future assests that we may not yet have acquired.... say I have a chance to buy something again in 8 years time, and buy, can the bank then come along and attach a judgdement? I know its after the 6 year period but perhaps the courts can rule now that it is to include any and all future assets?
     
  4. Time

    Time Frequent Poster

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    If they have a judgement they can register it as a judgement mortgage against any property you acquire during the 12 years of the judgement. But if they did it after 8 years the JM would only have force for 4 years.
     
  5. Roamer808

    Roamer808 Registered User

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    So ultimately the bank can get a judgement mortgage and it loses effictiveness after 12 years?
    Is there any way it can be extended by the bank?
    Then you have to get it removed at your end?
     
  6. Time

    Time Frequent Poster

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    Nope.
    Yes.
     
  7. cormirl

    cormirl Frequent Poster

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    How do you get it removed ? Is there huge expenses involved? Typically how much is the legal fall out when one has been pursued through the courts?
     
  8. Time

    Time Frequent Poster

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    It will leave the ICB after 6 years.
     
  9. coolhandluke

    coolhandluke Frequent Poster

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    If you can get something as clear as that wrong, then your "advice" is worth nothing.....
     
  10. Time

    Time Frequent Poster

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    A written off debt is removed after 6 years.

    Easy see the moral majority are posting.
     
  11. coolhandluke

    coolhandluke Frequent Poster

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    It's not.......your just making it up as you go along now. moral majority ??

    Post facts.......that is all.
     
  12. munchy

    munchy Frequent Poster

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    Is there any advantage to attending the court hearing? I wonder if the judges are always harsh and pass down judgements? I have no assets or income but I am paying some if the money back every single month (600 of the 1700 capital repayment) and if judge sees that some money is coming in, would that not buy me some time? He or she may insist that the bank accept these terms and not force a judgement etc.

    If it is a judgement and I choose to leave,is it only after this court appearance that that one should deny all knowledge of the debt etc, which I presume is harder if I show my face in court?
     
  13. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess New Member

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