Fintan O'Toole "feels like an eejit"

I wasn’t really speaking to the Delta issue and I didn’t mention it in my post.

I do understand the reasons for confining the AZ vaccine (largely but not exclusively) to the 60s cohort earlier this year. In March and April, it was clear that a lot of hard work and money was going into the difficult work of securing any of the 3 approved vaccines, and that how they would be used was based on the risk/benefit profiles known at the time in order to optimise vaccination rates and minimise hospitalisations.

Hence: NIAC said that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were “associated with higher overall protection which supports the preference to use them in those at highest risk of severe illness and death from Covid-19″ (unable to insert link to journal.ie 3 Feb 2021).

I don’t think there were complaints last Spring from people in their 60s being offered the AZ vaccine (despite such official statements implying they were not getting the higher level of protection offered by the approved mRNA vaccines, as well as some other European countries officially advising that sections of this population should not receive it – see, for example, the article above) because most intelligent people understood the complexities of supply and the need to priortiise the even-higher-risk groups with any available mRNA vaccines.

The age-risk profile was well publicised, understood and supported. Everyone celebrated those in their 70sand older getting their mRNA vaccines first, as well as groups of frontline workers and other vulnerable people getting vaccinated as early as possible.

The part that was infantilising and patronising at that time was Leo stating ‘you will go to the back of the queue, and have to wait for an alternative to be offered by the State’. He didn’t say ‘might’, he said ‘will’. (unable to insert link to rte.ie 15 April 2021)

The ‘feeling like a fool’, and loss of trust, comes from quickly realising this was a lie; from knowing that my fellow 60s cohort who were ‘cute’, or ‘in the know’, and did not comply with the rollout to their group, were not deprived of a vaccine as threatened, but rather rewarded almost immediately with a vaccine that NIAC had acknowledged offed 'higher overall protection' (and had no known rare serious side effects as had emerged with AZ).

Those fully-vaccinated-for-several-weeks-non-compliers have now been joined by the fully-vaccinated in the 50s cohort, many in the 40s cohort and, if you are still waiting for your second AZ vaccine, you are in a similar posiiton to those in their 30s who have now had their first vaccine.

All of this pales when one looks at the injustice of vaccine supply in most African countries: less than 1% of the population across the African continent have been fully vaccinated.
 
Let's be honest here if there was no Delta variant we wouldn't be discussing this.

In Feb AZ published widely that their vaccine provided a very high level of protection against the then dominant Alpha variant and went on to say that it was 100% effective in preventing serious illness and hospitalisation.

It was known that all vaccines at that time were/are two dose regimens with AZ themselves saying that the 12 week interval between doses was the optimum time to achieve those figures above.

No other vaccine made that claim, So it could be argued that the over 60s etc got the "best" vaccine available.

And I'll repeat again if there wasn't a Delta variant this wouldn't be an issue. Or, if we were still only getting Pfizer contracted quantity in the 2nd quarter we'd probably be still in the 60s group.

On the point of Leo saying what he said I'm still unsure why this has caused offence.

The goal of the rollout was, and still is to vaccinate the population and if some were playing " silly buggers" by choosing what vaccine they wanted a message needed to be sent.
 
The goal of the rollout was, and still is to vaccinate the population and if some were playing " silly buggers" by choosing what vaccine they wanted a message needed to be sent.

Fully agree. Vaccinating the population should take precedence over my personal requirements.

Brendan
 
Well, Fintan O’Toole is not speaking for this sexagenarian nor any I know.

I don’t feel like an “eejit”, rather I was damn glad to get any vaccine.

No vaccine provides 100% protection.

Like my fellow vaccinated sexagenarian family and friends, we don’t put ourselves in the way of contracting and so spreading the virus and are happy to do it for as long as it takes.

Some people grow older but sadly, not wiser.
 
I registered for AZ (age 68), though I was annoyed at being bullied by Leo: I would go to the back of the queue / not be vaccinated till Autumn if I didn't take it.
The piece written by Fintan O'Toole is what started this thread. I believe he was right in what he wrote but he's a journalist and can take the high moral ground and pick holes in government policy and in what politicians say. But politicians in government, such as Varadkar, have to actually make and implement decisions. I don't think Varadkar was wrong to put his head above the parapet in order to discourage people from refusing to take the AZ vaccine. He couldn't micro manage the situation and so I'm sure he knew that some people would play the system in order to get the vaccine they wanted.
Future compliance is not encouraged by patronising and threatening this cohort.
This was a main point of O'Toole's piece but my guess is that if Varadkar and government had not tried their best to discourage people from turning down the AZ vaccine in the hope of getting the Pfizer then a lot more people would have "tried it on". If you look back on AAM you will see people were considering this course of action. If too many people had taken this "mé féin" approach (mainly because of the very very very small risk of blood clots and the shorter gap to the second jab) then the vaccine rollout would have been impacted badly. The fact that the rollout has gone very well might be partly due to successfully discouraging many people from taking the "mé féin" approach.
decisions were made based on scientific evidence that the AZ vaccine was safe for people of a certain age profile and this wasn't just the Irish medical profession saying this,this was the EMA and other European countries.
I agree. If I recall correctly, the threat of blood clots was greater for the younger half of the population.
The part that was infantilising and patronising at that time was Leo stating ‘you will go to the back of the queue, and have to wait for an alternative to be offered by the State’. He didn’t say ‘might’, he said ‘will’.
As I said above he couldn't micro-manage it but he could put his head above the parapet and do his best to discourage people from taking the selfish approach. My guess is that some people turned down the AZ and pressured their GP's to give them an mRNA vaccine.
this was a lie
It wasn't a lie. Could the authorities have taken greater efforts to discourage the "mé féiners"? No doubt they could, but then they would have been accused of bullying the older age group. Time will tell if any systems were put in place by the HSE to back up Varadkars threat. However, no matter how good the system there will always be some who get through the net.
It was known that all vaccines at that time were/are two dose regimens with AZ themselves saying that the 12 week interval between doses was the optimum time to achieve those figures above.
I think that the it was known a couple of months back that the Pfizer was a 4 week gap and the AZ a 16 (then 12 and now 8) week gap between jabs. On AAM months ago you could see how some people put a very high value of travelling abroad for holidays. Getting the Pfizer would have been a high priority for them because they would have been fully vaccinated two months ahead of the AZ.
The goal of the rollout was, and still is to vaccinate the population and if some were playing " silly buggers" by choosing what vaccine they wanted a message needed to be sent.
Agreed. When the dust settles, I'd love to know how many people turned down the AZ or JJ vaccines and received the Pfizer or Moderna without much of a delay and if they got it through the HSE (i.e. at vaccination centres) or through their GP's.
 
Well, Fintan O’Toole is not speaking for this sexagenarian nor any I know.

I don’t feel like an “eejit”, rather I was damn glad to get any vaccine.

No vaccine provides 100% protection.

Like my fellow vaccinated sexagenarian family and friends, we don’t put ourselves in the way of contracting and so spreading the virus and are happy to do it for as long as it takes.

Some people grow older but sadly, not wiser.
It's a tribute to you and your family that you posted this. Mind you with you all begin " sexagarians " , my mind says " groovy baby" ,and being happy really is the nectar of what will hopefully get us to a better place.

I have no issue with the article or its point of view, and I'm sure it reflects the view of many, but when it decides to become a " rallying rant" , in his own head , it loses credibility as the facts counter so much of it.
 
The piece written by Fintan O'Toole is what started this thread. I believe he was right in what he wrote but he's a journalist and can take the high moral ground and pick holes in government policy and in what politicians say. But politicians in government, such as Varadkar, have to actually make and implement decisions. I don't think Varadkar was wrong to put his head above the parapet in order to discourage people from refusing to take the AZ vaccine. He couldn't micro manage the situation and so I'm sure he knew that some people would play the system in order to get the vaccine they wanted.

This was a main point of O'Toole's piece but my guess is that if Varadkar and government had not tried their best to discourage people from turning down the AZ vaccine in the hope of getting the Pfizer then a lot more people would have "tried it on". If you look back on AAM you will see people were considering this course of action. If too many people had taken this "mé féin" approach (mainly because of the very very very small risk of blood clots and the shorter gap to the second jab) then the vaccine rollout would have been impacted badly. The fact that the rollout has gone very well might be partly due to successfully discouraging many people from taking the "mé féin" approach.

I agree. If I recall correctly, the threat of blood clots was greater for the younger half of the population.

As I said above he couldn't micro-manage it but he could put his head above the parapet and do his best to discourage people from taking the selfish approach. My guess is that some people turned down the AZ and pressured their GP's to give them an mRNA vaccine.

It wasn't a lie. Could the authorities have taken greater efforts to discourage the "mé féiners"? No doubt they could, but then they would have been accused of bullying the older age group. Time will tell if any systems were put in place by the HSE to back up Varadkars threat. However, no matter how good the system there will always be some who get through the net.

I think that the it was known a couple of months back that the Pfizer was a 4 week gap and the AZ a 16 (then 12 and now 8) week gap between jabs. On AAM months ago you could see how some people put a very high value of travelling abroad for holidays. Getting the Pfizer would have been a high priority for them because they would have been fully vaccinated two months ahead of the AZ.

Agreed. When the dust settles, I'd love to know how many people turned down the AZ or JJ vaccines and received the Pfizer or Moderna without much of a delay and if they got it through the HSE (i.e. at vaccination centres) or through their GP's.
I'll have to piece through this tomorrow, but an answer to your last paragraph would be......not a hope.
 
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