Key Post Does my debt just disappear after 6 years, if the bank does nothing or can't fit find

Thanks Time, for the reply. Its a tricky one because I have the option of declaring bankruptcy in the UK but in that case I officially wipe out my credit rating in the UK, whereas the Irish judgment affects my Irish credit rating only (well more or less) I dont think we will every work in Ireland ever again and make the UK our home, and so it may be easier not to declare bankruptcy and ignore a judgement. Tricky decision.

But I do not relish the idea of years of harassment and calls, and / or looking over my shoulder either. I may not sleep!
 
"The debtors have 6 years from the accrual of the debt to issue and serve the proceedings"

When is the start of the accrual of debt? Is it the date that I missed my first payment? Or underpaid? Or is it when then the accrual department hand me over to their legal team?

And, can a judgment be made against a property or asset that I acquire overseas - ie is the judgement for any and all assets wherever they may be? How would they know if we one day buy a small apartment in the Uk?
 
It is 6 years from the last payment or written acknowledgement of the debt.

No, the judgement would only apply to Irish assets. If they wanted to apply it against overseas assets they would have to go through the entire process again in each country.

They won't know if you buy a property elsewhere unless they find out about it. They would have to be tipped off about it first.
 
Thanks so much Time. We are juggling bankruptcy vs judgement. For an Irish person wishing to return to Ireland afterwards, UK bankruptcy is ideal but for us we want to make the UK our new home and reading up about the impact of bankruptcy is making me check all options first. The crucial thing here appears to my whereabouts as they need to ensure that I am contactable in order to summons me. But I recently got married and our rental, car etc will be in my husbands name for the forseeable future, and my surname has changed. The bank dont know any of this yet. It may be that I am quite invisible and can be ignored for 6 years.

My question is this : what happens during the period 6-12 years? I presume the dogs are called off and they stop pursuing me and the apartment will be long sold off so the loan and the apartment will no longer exist, but what does it mean in practical terms to me in case I return to Ireland in year 10 or they find out where I am in year 8 for example?
 
The debt becomes statute barred after 6 years. Now there is nothing to stop them from writing nasty letters getting you to pay after 6 years are up. If you make a single payment or acknowledge the debt even after 6 years it resets the clock and makes the debt enforceable again.

It is important never to acknowledge the debt even after 6 years.
 
Aha, so you mean that if I take a phone call in year 7 I dont talk about the loan, deny it and say I have no idea what they are talking about, and if they write to me or email me I must just never reply at all?

I real terms I suspect that for 290+k it will be worth their while to chase me. Will it be a debt collecting company who would buy that debt or will they do it themselves, and if I have no other assets at all and low income, will it really be worth their while?
 
There are companies that buy statute barred debts for pennies on the euro in the hope they can trick the person into admitting liability for the full amount.

Aha, so you mean that if I take a phone call in year 7 I dont talk about the loan, deny it and say I have no idea what they are talking about, and if they write to me or email me I must just never reply at all?
That's it in a nutshell. Deny everything.
 
What happens if I did admit liability ? How does that help them recover the money? They have the chance to go back to court and start chasing me again? I ll probably not return to live in Ireland so now sure how they will squeeze me, unless they start proceedings against me in my new country against a new asset perhaps?
 
If you admit liability it gives them a fresh 6 years to issue proceedings against you.

If you stay quiet and they issue proceedings you can avail of a statute barred defence which would kill the debt for ever.
 
Maybe a silly question but.
If Bank gets judgment , I presume they will then check for other assets eg family home ,a few acres etc, they then take Charge over what they find , so when home/site ever sells the Bank take their share. Am I correct ??? If so anyone leaving Ireland the judgement could easily become a charge .Charges do not go away.
 
1)
2) If the bank discovers you are in the country whilst the judgement is still live, they can then start enforcing it via the normal means normally by seeking an instalment order and threatening committal to prison if the order is not complied with. Returning to Ireland for holidays is not going to cause any issues.

Can they get an installment order on someone who has moved our of Ireland? Basically, how likely is it that they would get an order in my absence? I dont mind ignoring a judgement whilst abroad but Id be very careful to ignore an installment order.
 
It would be very difficult to prove proper service if the person is outside Ireland.

Even if they did it would not be enforceable outside the state.
 
Charges go away after 12 years.


Does the judgment for 12 years begin at the date of summary judgement granted or when the actual judgment is "registered" against property. ? i.e Is there a difference between initial summary judgement and registered judgement ?
 
It is the date of summary judgement.

They could delay getting a JM for a few years but this does not extend the 12 year enforcement window. So if they waited 5 years, the effect of the JM would only be 7 years.
 
It is the date of summary judgement.

They could delay getting a JM for a few years but this does not extend the 12 year enforcement window. So if they waited 5 years, the effect of the JM would only be 7 years.

Great thread guys.

One question/example that I'm not sure has been 100% clarified. If I owe a mortgage of 400K v's 200K value, ie 200K negative equity, and I just leave the country without informing bank, can I return in 7 years debt free even if the bank sell the house after 7 years? Ie will the statute of limitations kick in again once house is sold even though I have had no contact or made any acknowledgement of the debt for 7 years?
 
The statute of limitations would only start when they sell the house and the shortfall is known. They then have 6 years from that date to seek judgement.
 
The statute of limitations would only start when they sell the house and the shortfall is known. They then have 6 years from that date to seek judgement.

Great, thanks for clarifying. So effectively one may have to stay away from Ireland for a very long time if the bank fail to sell the property in a reasonable timeframe.
 
mf's post from the original thread. The above is the summary of this.

In broad terms...............

See the Statute of Limitations 1957 - amended in 1991 and 2000.
Civil Liability Act 1961
Civil Liability and Courts Act 2004


A creditor can seek to recover a debt from a debtor for a period of 6 years from the date of the accrual of the debt. That date can be a different date for different debts - when does a credit card debt become due? At the date of the statement? When the debt is called in?

A debtor may also extend that time period by acknowledging the debt or making a part payment.

If a debtor does not pay, then a creditor can sue - within 6 years of the accrual of the debt. In broad terms, the debtor must be served (usually by registered post) with the Summons/Civil Bill and, in the High Court, a Summary Summons. Service of a Summary Summons is personal unless an alternative method is ordered by the Court. So the debtor must be made aware of the proceedings. Where service is not possible, a debtor can look for an order for substituted service - i.e. service by ordinary post, by advertisement in the paper etc.,etc. A Court should always be satisfied that a debtor has received notice of the proceedings.

If a debtor ( now a Defendant) does not defend the proceedings, a judgment will be obtained. A judgment lasts for 12 years only - after that it expires.
And no, there is no such thing as “just handing back the keys”. A mortgage attaches to a property but, except in very unusual circumstances, belongs to and will follow the property owner, unless agreed otherwise.
So, in answer to the above:

Johnny leaves Ireland for Australia owing unsecured debt of €5,000
Johnny just has a credit card and overdraft debt and leaves the country.
Does this disappear after a while?


The debtors have 6 years from the accrual of the debt to issue and serve the proceedings. An Irish Court probably does not have jurisdiction over a non resident for a debt and , for this amount of money, is unlikely to go to the trouble of issuing proceedings in Australia – if they can even track Johnny to an address.

So – Johnny does a runner and the debt dies after 6 years. So – any downside? If Johnny needs to come back? If Johnny cares about his ICB rating? Is it conceivable that if he looks for credit in Australia that someone could run a search on his Irish ICB?

Mary 1 has a shortfall of €100,000 arising from the shortfall on her mortgage.
She just gave the keys back to the bank. They sold the house and the shortfall is €100,000


She owes the bank €100,000.00. They can get a judgment against her. They need to have an address for her – or ask the Court to allow them serve her in an alternative manner. If she has other property assets, a judgment mortgage can be attached.

Mary 2 has a judgement against her for €150,000
Mary 2 handed back the keys but the bank registered a judgement against her.

As above.

Paddy has a judgement mortgage on his property of €30,000
A credit card company got a judgement against Paddy of €30,000 and registered it against his home. Does it disappear after x years?

It does not disappear- but it ceases to have any effect after 12 years. So, if he is selling 14 years after the judgment was obtained, he can take steps to have it removed.

Can the bank do anything to extend the statute of limitations?
If the bank continues to write to the debtor asking for the money does it keep it alive? When does the period start? Is it from the date the debt is incurred or the date the bank stops chasing it?


The bank can institute proceedings within 6 years of the accrual of the debt. That stops the Statute of Limitations running. The debtor can extend the 6 year period by acknowledging the debt (must be in writing)or part paying the debt.

mf

If the debtor signs for the summons/civil bill delivered by registered post does that act as acknowledging the debt?

If for example returning to ireland 'debt free' but with a shot credit rating and then buying a house with cash in ireland, is that possible?
 
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