Do we really care who's hetro or homosexual?
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I think he spoke publicly about it because of the marriage equality bill and referendum.
He is a member of a party which would traditionally have been supported by social conservatives so I don't see the political gain.
It's a pity more politicians don't come out, particularly those who are prominent members of left wing parties who are generally more socially liberal.
He is a member of a party which would traditionally have been supported by social conservatives so I don't see the political gain.
It's a pity more politicians don't come out, particularly those who are prominent members of left wing parties who are generally more socially liberal.
dereko1969
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He came out because he wanted to firstly. But also because he didn't want any insinuations being made regarding any decisions he might make on blood donations by gay and bisexual men.
To answer the title question for the thread - No: we shouldn't care about anyone's sexuality.
However - until this type of news is as irrelevant and as newsworthy as proclaiming someones gender, or skin colour or age, then it is relevant.
We do not have full equality yet in this country. Even if the referendum on marriage equality is passed, the law might state equality, but the reality of our culture will not have caught up with it. People are still harrassed based on sexuality, young people do not see that sexuality is not a bar to all aspects of life. Many a young man has committed suicide due to the level of repression of their innate selves. Sexuality is the only minority group where the person does not automatically get supported by friends or family (no one has to out themselves to their family about their gender or race).
Until a male couple, or a female couple can hold hands on the street, hug goodbye at airports and train stations, share an innocent kiss on a night out in the exact same way as a mixed sex couple can do so then it is important that we see role models in all walks of life, and proclamations like this are relevant.
Ireland has come a long long way - its uplifting the progress - and hopefully soon enough no one will care about a politicians sexuality.
(Speaking as an out gay man - who still feels very uncomfortable showing affection in public to a partner.)
However - until this type of news is as irrelevant and as newsworthy as proclaiming someones gender, or skin colour or age, then it is relevant.
We do not have full equality yet in this country. Even if the referendum on marriage equality is passed, the law might state equality, but the reality of our culture will not have caught up with it. People are still harrassed based on sexuality, young people do not see that sexuality is not a bar to all aspects of life. Many a young man has committed suicide due to the level of repression of their innate selves. Sexuality is the only minority group where the person does not automatically get supported by friends or family (no one has to out themselves to their family about their gender or race).
Until a male couple, or a female couple can hold hands on the street, hug goodbye at airports and train stations, share an innocent kiss on a night out in the exact same way as a mixed sex couple can do so then it is important that we see role models in all walks of life, and proclamations like this are relevant.
Ireland has come a long long way - its uplifting the progress - and hopefully soon enough no one will care about a politicians sexuality.
(Speaking as an out gay man - who still feels very uncomfortable showing affection in public to a partner.)
Hi Sol, a brave post indeed but it will take at least another generation until this type of news is irrelevant. In the meantime homosexuals should be entitled to hold hands, kiss in public in every way that hetrosexual couples do. Harrassment of homosexuals will continue for a while. Much of the public were brought up to spurn any kind of homosexuality and then into their forties homosexual acts were decriminalatised and suddenly these blatant homophobes were expected to change their opinions with the flick of a switch. We all know things do not happen this fast. Ask any Nationalist living in Belfast about the hope of changing the minds of Unionists.
In the meantime homosexuals can do themselves some favours thereby getting themselves more and more "accepted." You can say that homosexuals should not have to do this. Fair enough, but I think you know what I mean.
In the meantime homosexuals can do themselves some favours thereby getting themselves more and more "accepted." You can say that homosexuals should not have to do this. Fair enough, but I think you know what I mean.
The way I see that acceptance is earned - is by being open, by showing that being gay is no blocker to living a happy, healthy and successful life. By having positive role models. Leo's acknowledgement is important that way - as is Colin Farrell talking about his brother Eamonn his husband.
But most importantly - getting straight allies by being recognised as a member of their family, their friends, their colleagues; by being just another person they know and (hopefully) like.
I agree completely.
It simply shouldn’t matter. The stereotype of the effeminate man doesn’t fit with the few gay men I know. In that context I think that people like David Norris do a lot of harm to the acceptance of gay men as the same as everyone else in every way other than their sexuality. While he has been a great champion for equality in many areas (while being very intolerant of anyone who disagrees with him) he is a living caricature.
I disagree on your opinion of Norris and other effiminate/stereotypical gay men. While they are lampooned and ridiculed (both in the straight and gay worlds), they have also been the ones out there fighting the fight for equal rights - they are braver than those of us who consider ourselves 'Straight acting'. The stonewall rights in 1969 were fought the hardest by the drag queens. Panti Bliss is one of the most eloquent speakers of our time.
Norris to some extent is a caricature of the University eccentric, the Joycean scholar, the West Brit. But he has been such a strong proponent of gay rights.
On the other hand - I have been involved in setting up an LGBT Outdoor sports group that currently has over 1700 people on our mailing list. We have covered the country, climbing mountains, jumping off cliffs, kayaking down rivers and caving in bogs - we are showing the non city folk that the LGBT community is as diverse as the straight community. And we have had amazing acceptance everywhere.
Norris to some extent is a caricature of the University eccentric, the Joycean scholar, the West Brit. But he has been such a strong proponent of gay rights.
On the other hand - I have been involved in setting up an LGBT Outdoor sports group that currently has over 1700 people on our mailing list. We have covered the country, climbing mountains, jumping off cliffs, kayaking down rivers and caving in bogs - we are showing the non city folk that the LGBT community is as diverse as the straight community. And we have had amazing acceptance everywhere.
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Oh and just before I am accused of creating segregation - firstly the group is open to our friends - irrespective of sexuality.
And secondly - due to the very fact that our straight friends have been settling down and having kids - separation naturally occurs - with sports groups like this - people get to meet like minded folk in a non pub situation. In the exact same way as every small town has a drama group, and a sports club etc. as a way of increasing social interaction and community involvement.
I am not suggesting that they are not brave. I admire anyone who is willing to assert their right to be different. The world is a more interesting and richer place for it. I am saying that nobody should be defined by their sexuality alone. Panti Bliss isn't different because of sexual orientation but by being a drag queen.
I am aware of a 14 year old with gender dysphoria who is publically transitioning from boy to girl. I don't know the kid but I feel huge admiration for her incredible bravery.
Fair point but to me he just reinforces such a strong stereotype.
Good, that's the way it should be.
Gerry Canning
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...........
I must be odd.
But I really really think that we have moved on very very far from the obnoxious (queer bashing) (homophobic ) repressed sadness of previous generations.
Not only have we moved from those troglodite times, we really really do not have issues over whether anyone is Gay/Straight/ Crooked/Bent or whatever you are having yourself.
As long as people treat people with a modicum of respect , I just do not care!
If someone decides to go around with an Ostrich Feather in their hat , well good luck to them, I will probably snigger at them but cez-la-vie,
What I do wish to see, is that threads like this die a natural death and we all accept we are all a little different , or maybe largely different.
Maybe even in time we can make jokes about differences without being accused of being ,bigots,rascists, sexists! , and that at worst , we can be accused of just having a bad taste in humour.
I totally get the point you are making in your post above, and that sexuality is irrelevant to you (as it should be). And I get the fact that political correctness goes overboard so much, that we are always on tenter hooks about what we say. But there are still terms that are offensive and still hurt people and the ones you just used are highlighted above.
Now I am a grown man - and I can tolerate these words - but as a young person they hurt. I was in the gym last week and there were some teenage lads talking about 'faggots'. If they are using these words in the vicinity of other teenagers who are struggling with their sexuality it can cause undue stress and worry (believe me I know all about it!).
Until we get to a point where no one has to stress themselves about coming out, no one has to play the straight card, until we don't have to have people in the public eye announce their sexuality - then we still have some work to do.
I too look forward to the day "that threads like this die a natural death." And overall I see such positive steps forward.
(Only commenting on this as you seem to be aware of the power of words based on your comment on the post about the Marriage referendum
)
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Gerry Canning
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.....................................................I totally get the point you are making in your post above, and that sexuality is irrelevant to you (as it should be). And I get the fact that political correctness goes overboard so much, that we are always on tenter hooks about what we say. But there are still terms that are offensive and still hurt people and the ones you just used are highlighted above.
Now I am a grown man - and I can tolerate these words - but as a young person they hurt. I was in the gym last week and there were some teenage lads talking about 'faggots'. If they are using these words in the vicinity of other teenagers who are struggling with their sexuality it can cause undue stress and worry (believe me I know all about it!).
Until we get to a point where no one has to stress themselves about coming out, no one has to play the straight card, until we don't have to have people in the public eye announce their sexuality - then we still have some work to do.
I too look forward to the day "that threads like this die a natural death." And overall I see such positive steps forward.
(Only commenting on this as you seem to be aware of the power of words based on your comment on the post about the Marriage referendum
Sol 28 .
I REALLY do hear you and in no way did I wish in any way to offend anyone.So if I have inadvertently offended, I am very sorry.
What I was hoping to get across is that it does not matter what you are ,provided you do not act in any way that offends.
Reading the honesty in your thoughts makes me think that there are more (backswoodmen) left than I thought!
I think that verbal bullying dies as we get older and the terms you also used are generally a sadder reflection on the user than the abused.It probably says more about the bullies mindset and it is a pity they cant see the hurt they give.
Maybe in time, even teenagers will think before they spout out ?
I suppose it shows the power of words ?
And as you say I am aware of words.
As I said - I am not offended and I heard the beliefs behind your original message. And I am one of the first people to make a laugh in a non politically correct sense. But unfortunately we are still quiet backward - especially in the provinces.
It will take people a long time to adjust, as it has with older generations adjusting to people of different ethnicities. We challenge those folks who inadvertently use racist terms, and remind them of the fact that they hurt. We still need to do the same for terms of homophobic abuse (i am only using that phase as there is no '-ist' against homosexuality - I don't want to get into another panti-gate).
From any discussions that have arisen on Ask About Money over the years - I have generally seen a very favourable discussion around equality and equal rights. And this thread is another example. As and you said - hopefully in a short time frame discusions like this will just be part of our past.
It will take people a long time to adjust, as it has with older generations adjusting to people of different ethnicities. We challenge those folks who inadvertently use racist terms, and remind them of the fact that they hurt. We still need to do the same for terms of homophobic abuse (i am only using that phase as there is no '-ist' against homosexuality - I don't want to get into another panti-gate).
From any discussions that have arisen on Ask About Money over the years - I have generally seen a very favourable discussion around equality and equal rights. And this thread is another example. As and you said - hopefully in a short time frame discusions like this will just be part of our past.
Gerry Canning
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Gerry Canning
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Sol 28.
You are offending me now.
I live in the Provinces!
Have a good day,
You are offending me now.
I live in the Provinces!
Have a good day,
Gerry,
No Offence - Unfortunately Dublin is a bit out of kilter with many parts of the country - I am a country boy myself.
Dublin is not the Emerald City where everything is perfect - but because gay people have a tendency to move towards the cities where they have more options - then the city can be more accepting - this has historically been the case globally.
As with any groups - there are positive and negative people everywhere, there is acceptance and rejection in every locality - but acceptance is still more evident in the city.
I am much more public in Dublin than I ever will be in my home town. If I was ever to hold the hand of my partner in public - I am more than likely to do it in the city than in a rural town. I might be over paranoid - but I also have had years of being repressed in my town.
So apologies if I offended but its not meant (again the power or simple words!).
No Offence - Unfortunately Dublin is a bit out of kilter with many parts of the country - I am a country boy myself.
Dublin is not the Emerald City where everything is perfect - but because gay people have a tendency to move towards the cities where they have more options - then the city can be more accepting - this has historically been the case globally.
As with any groups - there are positive and negative people everywhere, there is acceptance and rejection in every locality - but acceptance is still more evident in the city.
I am much more public in Dublin than I ever will be in my home town. If I was ever to hold the hand of my partner in public - I am more than likely to do it in the city than in a rural town. I might be over paranoid - but I also have had years of being repressed in my town.
So apologies if I offended but its not meant (again the power or simple words!).
Gerry Canning
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Sol ,
You have just made me snigger, I just could not resist giving you a dig!!!! My sense of humour!!!no offence taken in any way atall.