Convicted drink driver can defer disqalification for up to 6 months??

L

LS400

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This is absolutely crazy. An work colleague of mine has a car accident in early Oct 14, It was bound to happen as he is for ever driving completly out of it and has never taken heed to warnings. His readings were at the higher end of the scale. I go to court with him in Jan 15 as his English is not the first language and he has no family here, also, am pretty curious about the working of the court. He pleads not guilty, looking for some loop hole or the fact the garda might not turn up. has case put back till March. Next sitting, To buy time, his solicitor appeals using the language barrier that he should have an interpetor ( His english is as good as anyones ) has his case put back till April. All this time he continues to D&D. End of April, 7 monthe later, Garda still turning up, which is 3 times he has had to appear, for the lad to eventually plead guilty. He is given the choice to take the 3 year ban now or can put it off for up to 6 months. As it turn out, he takes the deferal due to the fact he planned to go back to his country in September this year, mean while drinking & driving, for best part of a year since being cought and charged. Absolutely Crazy.
 
Sean O'Rourke show the other morning...Paddy O'Gorman is on with his weekly piece from outside courts, talking to people up that day. This time it's Mallow and there's some real beauties talking about their cases.
1 lad has never had insurance or a licence for a car but has been driving for years (he sounded to be late 40's/early 50's). He's caught for the umpteenth time for this and appears before the judge. He gets another ban, suspension etc. He comes out and talks to Paddy who asks him how he's getting home today...Driving he says, how else, and off he goes to his car!!!

Some country
 
A very very big issue shown in ls400,s post is the patently obvious fall down by Judges.
They appear to be incapable or unwilling to make decisions.
They appear to have an inordinate wish to ensure 100% to be (fair).
They appear to not understand that should a convicted charged person feel he has an appealable case ,the charged person can appeal.

I can so understand how a Garda must be vexed , we accuse them of not doing their job , then when they do Mr Judge lets them waste scarce resources under the pretext of (fairness)?
Who judges the Judges ?.

Delboy,s post .
I do not even wish to comment !!
 
Gerry Canning said:
A very very big issue shown in ls400,s post is the patently obvious fall down by Judges.
They appear to be incapable or unwilling to make decisions.
They appear to have an inordinate wish to ensure 100% to be (fair).
They appear to not understand that should a convicted charged person feel he has an appealable case ,the charged person can appeal.

I can so understand how a Garda must be vexed , we accuse them of not doing their job , then when they do Mr Judge lets them waste scarce resources under the pretext of (fairness)?
Who judges the Judges ?.

Delboy,s post .
I do not even wish to comment !!
Click to expand...


There is an awful lot of mixed up metaphors in there, Gerry!

LS400 makes the point that his work colleague exploited every opportunity to work the system. He's the problem - not the judges who have mountains of cases to deal with.

If you look at Delboys post, the issue is not with the Judge, it is with enforcement.

The Judges do make decisions.

They are supposed to be 100% fair.

And , yes, we live in a democracy - where,as a citizen, you have a right to appeal a decision that adversely affects you.

The Appeal Court judges the judges.

As do the meedja

mf
 
My issue was with the Judge. also They're way too fond of suspending sentences and granting the benefit to the the person convicted, regardless of how many times they are convicted
 
Delboy said:
My issue was with the Judge. also They're way too fond of suspending sentences and granting the benefit to the the person convicted, regardless of how many times they are convicted
Click to expand...

That is a very broad statement. You're not a judge. You are a member of the public with a personal view.

We live in an imperfect world.

Now, mind you, when I rule the world.................

mf
 
mf1.

I have had occasion to watch a judge at work.
I generally agree with Delboys (anxst).

As a layman ,it is blindingly apparent that the system( at the head of which are judges) is set up to ensure cases are not heard, in some cases, Judges have relinquished the wish to act.
I would strongly contend that in LS400,s post that the judge had an opportunity to cut through the time wasting and if charged person felt aggrieved then charged person could take the risk of appealing.
If judges always adhere to the strict wish that every case must be heard to the ninth degree and they permit every potential get out clause , we continue to have the circus (my opinion) that I viewed.

I could only ask , why would a Guard bother taking a case? .
We seem to have ended up in a bad place , because if my views are true, the guilty one has no fear of retribution ,the Guard gets disheartened and we all suffer.

Maybe what I sighted is not usual ,I would be interested to get other views.
 
"As a layman ,it is blindingly apparent that the system( at the head of which are judges) is set up to ensure cases are not heard, in some cases, Judges have relinquished the wish to act."

That is a staggeringly, wide sweeping statement.

You may know that I am a solicitor so I am quite immersed in the system. In my considerable experience, there are some less than adequate Judges but, by and large, they get through their work in a very fair and reasonable manner.

"If judges always adhere to the strict wish that every case must be heard to the ninth degree ..........."

Believe me, if you ever have a kid in trouble, you will want this, you will not want you kid's case ruled like a set of facts on a conveyor belt.

mf
 
mf1 said:
You may know that I am a solicitor so I am quite immersed in the system. In my considerable experience, there are some less than adequate Judges but, by and large, they get through their work in a very fair and reasonable manner.
Click to expand...

Well that explains your initial response to my comment above!

From my experience, as a humble layman of course, the current system seems to be like our current mortgage arrears/lack of repossessions crisis...it's all 'extend and pretend'!
Judges seem to give out suspended sentences like snuff at a wake, even to habitual criminals. Legal teams on both sides draw out cases as long as possible. It suits all sides, except the victims of course.
 
"Judges seem to give out suspended sentences like snuff at a wake,"

"It suits all sides, except the victims of course."

Ah now, really!

It is just too easy to make these statements - but they are entirely meaningless. It's just burble without meaning.

But, shure, what would I know - I'm not a humble layman! And they always know best. Talk to any layman.

mf
 
Wow mf1, do you really believe "he" is the problem. He and his like are given every opportunity to exploit the system. It's akin to saying ( she deserved what she got for dressing like that) beggars belief as you are in the legal profession. As a "layman" I sat through session after session, case put back one after another, the same line of Garda lining the side wall, with the judge saying with a raised eyebrow, as a new case was called, well I suppose you want an Adjournment for..... The judge was no fool, but probably constrained by his own profession has become a ( what's the point in putting his head above the parapet) and saying hang in a minute, you crashed your car, you were so far over the legal limit your readings were off the scale, the Garda is standing here now pointing you out as that person he arrested for this crime, no, we will delay this, get the Garda to come back again and again, cost the tax payer more and more to watch this circus in town. Im not advocating a system of rule by the rod, but there has got to be a better way of efficiency in this regard.This is just one case from court no 8, what a waste of time and money.
 
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But LS400- the longer the cases are drawn out, the more criminals put back on the streets asap.....the more legal fees/jobs for Legal eagles!

Despite the Troka's best efforts, the Legal profession was left largely untouched
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/doubts-at-legal-system-reform-330743.html
The legal reform plan agreed with the EU-IMF troika, and later driven by then justice minister Alan Shatter, aimed to cut the cost of the courts system and reduce lawyers’ fees.
The long-delayed Legal Services Bill, introduced in 2011, outlines the biggest changes to the legal system in the history of the State.
The delays were a source of frequent criticism by the troika....
...However, the bill has yet to be enacted and may never see the statute books in the lifetime of the current Dáil. It has remained stalled ever since with periodic assurances from Government that it was being dealt with.
Click to expand...
Make of that what you will :(
 
Sooo frustrating, when you think that's just one court session out of many going on. To think there could be a more efficient way to improve the system, and not to do it, reinforces the point above, circle the wagons and protect the golden egg. But then again, I'm not in the legal profession, I'm just a layman, what would I know about improving a defunct system. We will leave that to the experts..
 
mf1 said:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/8-stupid-arguments-that-internet-debates-always-devolve-into/
Click to expand...

MF1.

I may well be over the top or under the top !but I take this forum as a bouncing ground.

My experience leads me to genuinely believe that our legal system is not fit for purpose.
My experience leads me to believe our judiciary are away in a little cossetted world.
My experience leads me to believe our judiciary are not permitted to make decisions, because said system has circumvented their actual ability to act in societies interests.

My experience leads me to believe that too many solicitors play the system.

I also strongly believe there are umpteen good solicitors and umpteen good judges.

I think any powerful system , be it church, garda ,banks, etc that is not readily challengeable by the layman leaves itself open to a (negative) view.
Self ruling systems eg law society , concern me.

With respect to you , stand back and look at your profession wearing laymans shoes.
.
 
Gerry

Lets leave this on the basis that we have very different perspectives.


mf
 
mf1,

I agree we should leave it , though maybe if things were teased out we arn,t that far apart, maybe just viewing from different points !.
ps sorry if I sounded a bit (huffy)
 
I was in Court yesterday on a case that has dragged on since 2013.
...................
1. At previous hearing defending solicitor stated to judge that he had by phone calls,e-mails requested info from injured parties and hadn,t received that info.
Problem was he never requested said info ! but he still got adjournment?
...........................................................................................
2. Yesterday defending solicitor told judge his client had returned goods and since client could face heavy other costs requested an adjournment .
Problem , client hadn,t returned goods , they were found and returned by psni..He got adjournment.
.............................................................................................
I mentioned to solicitor that this (lying) worried me .
Response was (what is new).

Maybe I expect more.
 
Is this not sort of frustrating, The Solicitors are making a fool of the Judges, who seem to be oblivious or are compliant in this wasteful regard, its no wonder games like this take place on a daily basis. If the Judge was on his game, he would be asking for proof of phone calls, emails and so on. I have no doubt, if the solicitor was challanged on his words, he and everyone else would think twice before fooling the next person. I know its the solicitors job to defend their client, but can this not done with integrity. Why should we accept it ok for this profession to make a mockery of the system, what if we were to apply this lax-a-daisy approach to every day life. Maybe it has become the norm in most professions.
 
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