Citizens Assembly - Drugs - decriminalisation of possession presumably for er 'private' use

[Purple]

and when they decriminalised the possession of illegal substances in certain areas.

One possible conclusion is that our TransAtlantic brethren aren’t good at this stuff. Maybe we should look elsewhere for guidelines or solutions.

Yes, that is one possible conclusion.
Can I take it from our silence on the substantive portion of my post that you agree with me on those points?

Where to look? How about here at home and have a gander at how well our laws and the enforcement of them are working at reducing the death and destruction on our roads, the people killed and injured in fights, the people whose health and that of their families is being ruined by tobacco and alcohol addiction?

Great idea. In the 70’s and 80’s there were around 500 people killed on Irish roads. There were less than a quarter of the journeys taken that we took in 2023. Our roads are much safer than they were decades ago.

Violent crime is very low here, tobacco and alcohol consumption rates are at historic lows and dropping. Life expectancies have increased significantly over the last few decades.
Globally the last 200 years have been some of the safest in history.

When was the last time you heard of a publican being prosecuted for serving alcohol to an already intoxicated customer?

I haven’t looked for that information.

What about automatic jail for someone detected driving over the legal limit?

What, if they are 2% over? The same penalty for someone 300% over? Do you think that’s a good idea?

Automatic jail and loss of licence for 5 years as a starting point,

A starting point? Jasus. Will we have special prisons for all those people?

sentences doubled for each person injured if the driver concerned is found culpable in a road traffic collision, doubling again for each person killed or sustaining life-altering injuries.

Higher penalties for worse outcomes are already the usual practice.

None of these measures would suit the liquor licence holders in Dáil Éireann, which is why they’ll never even be discussed. If we’re serious we need to take unpalatable steps, then maybe we can discuss what to do about the illegal drugs.

So until we “fix” one problem we shouldn’t try to deal with a different problem. That sounds inefficient.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

I've known lots of alcoholics. In most cases it was a slow process and while there was huge damage to themselves and others they still managed to maintain contact with reality.

I've had two males in late teens close to me fall very rapidly into psychosis that coincided with heavy spamspamspam use. It's not clear whether the spamspamspam was the cause or the effect, it's very hard to disentangle but I've no doubt that the spamspamspam was a huge part of a descent into what used to be called madness. The process took no more than a few months and took years to recover from.

I am very wary about liberalising the stuff, especially for young people.

 

[thedaddyman]

Interesting article here in the Telegraph today after the Grand National at the weekend

Cocaine rife at Grand National meeting as racing’s drugs problem deepens

Exclusive: Telegraph Sport found substance present in almost 40 toilet cubicles as racing struggles to control problem of drug use at course

www.telegraph.co.uk

I've seen similar issues at football matches in the UK and also at the Aviva here, the ERC final last year between Leinster and La Rochelle was a deeply unpleasant experience with so many guys in the 20s and 30's half plastered and clearly on edge after coke use.

 

[arbitron]

As bad as the personal, social, economic, and public health repercussions of drug use in Ireland, it is nothing compared to the effects in poorer countries, especially where drug crops are grown. Murder, terrorism, systemic corruption, intimidation, etc.

Anyone using cocaine has blood on their hands.

Nicola Tallant does a great job highlighting this on her Crime World podcast.

 

[mathepac]

So until we “fix” one problem we shouldn’t try to deal with a different problem. That sounds inefficient.

All the same problem - addiction, chemical dependency, whatever term suits you. Perhaps poly-drug dependency is the most common problem these days with teens, 20s, & 30s, the gateway drug being alcohol in this country, as has always been the case.

 

[Purple]

I've known lots of alcoholics. In most cases it was a slow process and while there was huge damage to themselves and others they still managed to maintain contact with reality.

I've had two males in late teens close to me fall very rapidly into psychosis that coincided with heavy spamspamspam use. It's not clear whether the spamspamspam was the cause or the effect, it's very hard to disentangle but I've no doubt that the spamspamspam was a huge part of a descent into what used to be called madness. The process took no more than a few months and took years to recover from.

I am very wary about liberalising the stuff, especially for young people.

The problem now is that the healthcare industry is happy to see drug addiction criminalised so that they don’t have to deal with it. I have close personal experience of that and the deep frustration and anger that Gardai feel towards the medical industry. In the case I’m familiar with the Gardai were compassionate, engaged and without doubt saved the addicts life. The callous and active indifference of doctors was staggering. Without access to significant resources to access private rehab the addict would be dead. Thankfully he’s recovered in as much as such a thing is possible.
Criminalisation of addiction allows those who should be responsible for helping addicts to shirk their responsibility. It allows us to dehumanise the addict and it allows addiction to increase.
Nobody is talking about legalising the sale of drugs. The proposal is to decriminalise possession for personal use, thus allowing addicts to access medical services.