"Chargeable person", over 5k "taxable income", Form 11

podgerodge said:
Thanks @Freelance for that. I had been a tad concerned but I had also forgotten that this 5k is per person so our joint savings can bring us to 10k before hitting threshold (I hope,!)

Separately, per my other point, are small regular savers really all putting their gross deposit interest into Revenue every year when it's not making any difference to their liability?
I've never heard of people doing it, but I'm guilty of not, thinking it was at source so not an issue.
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It depends. The Non PAYE Income €5000 "chargeable person" limit is not individualised for jointly assessed couples. So in the case of a married couple, jointly assessed, the (annual) limit is €5000 not €10000 on the couple represented by one person as the "chargeable person". A tad unfair and likely to be fully individualised once our progressive government becomes aware of it......
 
ceannt said:
It depends. The Non PAYE Income €5000 "chargeable person" limit is not individualised for jointly assessed couples. So in the case of a married couple, jointly assessed, the (annual) limit is €5000 not €10000 on the couple represented by one person as the "chargeable person". A tad unfair and likely to be fully individualised once our progressive government becomes aware of it......
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If separately assessed

Scenario A: 200k in 2x joint accounts @4%, no other savings
Tax due at 37% / 37.1% from Oct (CGT / PRSI)

Scenario B: 200k in 2x individual accounts @4%, no other savings
Tax due at 33% (CGT) as neither individual becomes a chargeable person

Is that right?
 
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ceannt said:
Non PAYE Income €5000 "chargeable person" limit is not individualised for jointly assessed couples.
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Is this the bit you refer to:

"4.2.1 Assessable spouse or nominated civil partnerIn the case of married persons, the spouse who is chargeable to tax on the income ofboth spouses is known as the “assessable spouse”.In the case of civil partners, the partner who is chargeable to tax on the income ofboth civil partners is known as the “nominated civil partner”.

I see that one person is chargeable. But my reading is that this is where one person makes the tax return. I would be gobsmacked (and probably will be shortly ha!) if it still wasn't worked out as 2 people in terms of the tax due.

"A chargeable person for self-assessment purposes is a person who is chargeable to tax on income on that person’s own account or on another person’s account in respect of a chargeable period" -

So, I might be "chargeable person" for my wife, but the liability would still be only be if either or both had over €5k?
 
podgerodge said:
Is this the bit you refer to:

"4.2.1 Assessable spouse or nominated civil partnerIn the case of married persons, the spouse who is chargeable to tax on the income ofboth spouses is known as the “assessable spouse”.In the case of civil partners, the partner who is chargeable to tax on the income ofboth civil partners is known as the “nominated civil partner”.

I see that one person is chargeable. But my reading is that this is where one person makes the tax return. I would be gobsmacked (and probably will be shortly ha!) if it still wasn't worked out as 2 people in terms of the tax due.

"A chargeable person for self-assessment purposes is a person who is chargeable to tax on income on that person’s own account or on another person’s account in respect of a chargeable period" -

So, I might be "chargeable person" for my wife, but the liability would still be only be if either or both had over €5k?
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Yes, irrespective of whether the "earner" of the non PAYE income is husband or wife or combined, there is one designated "chargeable person", when Jointly assessed, and the limit is €5000.

The key point here is that there is no "double allowance" resulting in a higher limit of €10000. This is the instruction provided by my Accountant and confirmed by Revenue.
 
Folks using the word 'allowance' is misleading.

This €5k thing is about whether you file a Form 11 as a 'chargeable person'.

You are still liable to return bank interest even if its €1 as a non-chargeable person as in PAYE. (This is Revenue not me!) The fact that they are not active chasing it is another matter. However you should note that there are requirements on FI to submit returns.

I can find nothing that distinguishes liability for additional PRSI regardless of PAYE or non-PAYE. The legislation is torturous.
 
Can I ask, does everyone agree - is Ceannt correct that we have a situation where if a couple not jointly assessed have 5k each in non paye income i.e. 10k they are both chargeable, but if a married couple has a total of 5k they are chargeable. If that makes sense!
 
AAAContributor said:
Yes. Revenue have confirmed it in Paragraph 3 here:

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Quote:

3. Jointly assessed cases
In the case of married couples or civil partners who are jointly assessed, the income thresholds are applied to the joint non-PAYE income of both spouses or civil partners. In the case of married couples or civil partners who opt for separate assessment or single treatment, the thresholds are applied separately to each spouse or civil partner.


Isn't that open to interpretation, or am I simply biased?! It seems incredible that they would apply different standards in this way. They do reference the "income thresholds are applied to the joint non-PAYE income of BOTH" - could they mean that they will double up and apply €5k each ("the thresholdS")? Otherwise, this amounts to an unfair taxation on joint assessment couples.
 
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