Buying from a main dealer - how to check car history?

Mr2 said:
The trade do what they like and people who buy from them support them.

SIMI approved,Main dealers don't. We want nothing to do with it. We may take it off you but you'll get nothing for it.

People in Ireland may "adjust" there milage as a customer put it to me once, but it's not illegal. Approved dealers will have nothing to do with them.

Tried that carcheck.ie, there seems no way of finding out what milage the
car was at when coming into Ireland. Are you able to put up a link to excatly what they gave you back?

We have details of service records in the UK, Warranty work in the U.K, milage it was at when it entered the docks, the last time it was in a dealer in Ireland etc. The above seems fairly basic.
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Now I'm really confused. On the one hand you're saying "nearly all UK imports are clocked", and on the other you're saying you can get full information on a UK car.

I was talking about the relative risk between buying a car in the UK (assuming main dealer history and HPI), which I see as low, and the risk of buying ANY second hand car here, regardless of whether it's an import or not, which I'd see as high.

Obviously though, if you buy a car with history off a main dealer here it's less risky than buying privately or some dodgy dealer.

In my experiance main dealers are happy to give good trade-ins on privately imported UK cars with history for the very reason you state: they have access to records. Hence I can't understand your claims that (a) they won't touch them and (b) they've all been clocked.
 
I think nobody is under any illusions that generally cleaner, better specced, and lower mileage cars are available abroad.

There are thousands of € to be saved for a cash buyer too. Much bigger choice also.

www.cargiant.co.uk is a good car supermarket. Go check the prices, and add VRT and costs. Then compare that to what a similar car costs here.
 
smarthinking said:
I am about to buy second hand from a main dealer. Before I buy, how can I find out the name(s) of the previous owner, so that I can call them to verify things like mileage etc?
Also, should I get an independent mechanic to check the car out?
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I suppose in answer to the original question it seems that the general consensus is, if looking in Ireland, yes get the car mechanically checked & mileage verified - which seems to be easily done.

If considering importing, HPI seems to offer at least as much (if not more) security than buying here.

Needless to say the possibility of getting stung is difficult to avoid completely.
 
ang1170, I'll give you an example of what I mean, we had a fella trying to trade in his english import 130bhp Passat with 66k on the clock.
Full service history etc. Looked good to us. Had all his paper work stamped and dated.

Checked it out and at the moment it entered Ireland 17-10-'05, 72odd on the clock.

We don't want to trade these in, we can't sell them with any sort of warranty so why would we trade them in?

Customer tells us the same story they have been told, why should a dealer get roasted with it. Up until we got access to this info cars might have been traded in but you bring an English Import car to any dealer today and see how you get on.
 
Mr2 said:
ang1170, I'll give you an example of what I mean, we had a fella trying to trade in his english import 130bhp Passat with 66k on the clock.
Full service history etc. Looked good to us. Had all his paper work stamped and dated.

Checked it out and at the moment it entered Ireland 17-10-'05, 72odd on the clock.

We don't want to trade these in, we can't sell them with any sort of warranty so why would we trade them in?

Customer tells us the same story they have been told, why should a dealer get roasted with it. Up until we got access to this info cars might have been traded in but you bring an English Import car to any dealer today and see how you get on.
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Proper order. Had the owner had a HPI check done, there would not have been any issue presumably? The guy tried to save STG£40 . What an absolute idiot.
 
Mr2 said:
ang1170, I'll give you an example of what I mean, we had a fella trying to trade in his english import 130bhp Passat with 66k on the clock.
Full service history etc. Looked good to us. Had all his paper work stamped and dated.

Checked it out and at the moment it entered Ireland 17-10-'05, 72odd on the clock.

We don't want to trade these in, we can't sell them with any sort of warranty so why would we trade them in?

Customer tells us the same story they have been told, why should a dealer get roasted with it. Up until we got access to this info cars might have been traded in but you bring an English Import car to any dealer today and see how you get on.
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I've done it within the last two months (traded a UK import agaist a new car, that is), with no problems.

You're clearly right in this case: why would you get stuck with it? Not sure where you found out about the mileage at time of import and whether it tallied with the service history: maybe the service history was faked? The point is that you can get a HPI check, which will show this up (as will checking with VW service records).

In other words, you actually have MORE checks you can do with a UK car then with an Irish one. So why do you maintain they're riskier?
 
In my view a UK imported car with FSH and a warranteed HPI check is at least as safe as an equivalant irish car.

It's much better value too chances are.
 
Two months ago is out dated at this stage. Today is what counts, maybe like I said above people may have gotten away with trading it in in the past but not any more.

If cars are so cheap in England, why did you trade it in and get an Irish car?

A dealer can do more check (esp at docks now) and we are more informed that ever. You as a private individual can't do these checks.

This man had full car check details, full history (stamped book), owners name's, car was a ringer!

Alot of people going to get stuck with these cars. If you wouldn't mind, just to see can ang1170 pm me with your chassie number and milage that you traded in your car with. I'll pm you back the details and you post them here minus the full details. Little test you could say, I'm sure you were not caught out but let's just see.
 
Mr2 said:
Two months ago is out dated at this stage. Today is what counts, maybe like I said above people may have gotten away with trading it in in the past but not any more.
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So what's happened in the last two months to cause the sudden change?

Mr2 said:
If cars are so cheap in England, why did you trade it in and get an Irish car?
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Simple: I wanted a new car, on which there's no savings if you import.

Mr2 said:
A dealer can do more check (esp at docks now) and we are more informed that ever. You as a private individual can't do these checks.
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Maybe not, but I can HPI check any car purchased in the UK.

Mr2 said:
This man had full car check details, full history (stamped book), owners name's, car was a ringer!
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There's no evidence that clocked/ringed cars are any more common in the UK than here, and at the risk of repeating myself, you have more checks you can do in the UK than here.

Mr2 said:
Alot of people going to get stuck with these cars. If you wouldn't mind, just to see can ang1170 pm me with your chassie number and milage that you traded in your car with. I'll pm you back the details and you post them here minus the full details. Little test you could say, I'm sure you were not caught out but let's just see.
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I don't have the car anymore, as I traded in in (like I said). I also handed over all the history of the car when I traded it. It was bought from a main dealer in the UK with FSH. It also checked out with HPI, and VIN matched all documentation, so what more can be checked? Are you saying that UK main dealers are less trustworthy than Irish ones? that they'd sell a ringed car?
 
RS2K said:
Has an SIMI member ever sold a clocked or cloned car? Just wondering.
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I'd imagine it's happened at least once in the past (whether intentional or not), what would be more interesting is if it is a regular occurance?

By the way, is there anywhere to find a list of all SIMI garages in a particular area? I searched the SIMI site for 'Car Sales & Service' in the 'Dublin' area and it came back saying no results found!!
 
Mr2 said:
... Today is what counts, maybe like I said above people may have gotten away with trading it in in the past but not any more. ...
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So does that mean that the SIMI members have got together and actually come to a decision to ignore any car that was once registered in the UK?

If so they are looking at the situation all wrong, if as you said you can do more checks than the regular punter can, then do them and if it all works out then treat the car for what it is, a piece of machinery with good history that has a value and can be sold for a modest profit. Isn't that what you guys are doing it for, to make a profit?

It is this sort of attitude by SIMI and it's members that has Irish car prices so extortinate and makes people feel they need to get proper 'value' else where for their hard earned cash
 
It's either that or an example of FUD, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

Making claims that most UK cars are clocked or you won't be able to trade them in is a classic example, I'd say.

By the way, despite this, I've a lot of sympathy for car dealers having to operate in the VRT enviromment. VRT is an absolute scandal in terms of free trade. However, the dealer's argument is with the Revenue on this, not with consumers trying to get the best deal they can (that's called competition).
 
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I agree with you that VRT is bad news for everyone. But I just find it hard to swallow that if the SIMI and it's members were that interested in doing something about VRT, they would have an enormous amount of clout with the government in making change.

I also find it hard to believe that dealers' pockets are hurting at all with the structure of vehicle pricing in this country, VRT included.

Dealers have never come across as anything but opportunists to me, and I have had dealings with a fair few, both in and out og the capital. After all it is the dealers who are speccing out the new cars coming into the country isn't it, and then selling standard features as 'options'.....

I'm sorry if I seem to be beating down on dealers, it's just I haven't seen or heard any evidence to make me change my view, thats all
 
I couldn't say with 100% certainity that every SIMI approved Main dealer has not sold a clocked car but I'd be 99% sure. The 1% would be cars we didn't know were clocked.

FUD, from what I can see this would be information passed on by people saying that every SIMI approved Main dealer is out to screw people. Even when we go to extreme lenghts to get SIMI approval, be able to hold on to a main dealership and even meet ISO requirements. We do our best to be as transparent as possible and still people go else where and have bad experiences with otheres who are not approved for anything and rant and rave about that and give the MOTOR INDUSTRY a bad name.

Of course there are more clocked and dodge cars in UK, look at your HPI site and work out the numbers there are saying are "faulty" in some way and look at the sheer number of cars registered in the UK. Simple maths would let you work that one out.

Am I saying that UK dealers would sell a "Ringer", the man I mentioned above bought from a dealer in the UK and it was a ringer, so yes I am.


ang1170, you gave away all your details of your car. Your SIMI from that you signed when you traded in your car will have all you trade in details.
Give me the reg off it and the milage if you like?

Profit on an Import! we won't retail a UK import. I can safetly say nearly every car we have had in here trying to trade in and for service/repair work has been clocked that has come from the UK.
 
Saying that Irish dealers are more honest than their UK equivalent is pure opinion/hearsay unless you have objective evidence to back it up.

Saying that the only way an SIMI dealer would only sell a clocked car if they were hoodwinked is also merely opinion.

A lot of weasel words in the above post. Take with a pinch of salt.
 
Mr2 said:
Profit on an Import! we won't retail a UK import.
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Not even if it does check out with all your checks? If thats the case it's a perfectly good car to sell?

Mr2 said:
I can safetly say nearly every car we have had in here trying to trade in and for service/repair work has been clocked that has come from the UK.
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Do you tell the customer this or do you just note that you won't accept said car if they come looking for a trade-in?

Any chance of finding out where 'here' is? Might save someone the embarrasment of trying to trade-in a UK car and be branded dodgy by the sales guy
 
Googled "clocked cars ireland"....

Irish Times June 2007..
'Clocked' cars are targeted

The National Consumer Agency (NCA) is preparing prosecutions against four dealers who are alleged to have "clocked" the cars they were selling.

Not sure if any of these are/were SIMI members or not btw.
 
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