Are solicitors obliged to keep a register of important documents?

Prosper

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Are solicitors obliged to keep a register of important documents? I'm particularly thinking about Title Deeds. So for example if a solicitor says they do not have the Deeds and the deceased client had made a written note in a notebook at home to say that he left the Deeds with his solicitor and had verbally told his children that the solicitor had the Deeds, is the onus not on the solicitor to produce a register showing either that the client had never signed in the Deeds or that he had in fact signed them out?
 
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Are solicitors obliged to keep a register of important documents? I'm particularly thinking about Title Deeds.

I don't think there is any specific regulation saying that we have to keep a register of title deeds, most solicitors do though. It would probably come under general negligence- if you could prove it. The problem is you can't, it seems. And you can't be sure that they really did have the deeds either, even if you believe they did- because quite often people get it wrong- your dad may have got it wrong- he may have given something else quite different to them, or did give them but took them back, or meant to give them but didn't. I was recently given an envelope in the office on which the client had written 'title deeds'. Inside was a copy of an old folio of a property they had sold many years before, and nothing to do with the title of the house they currently lived in. Yet they were convinced they had given me the title- luckily I opened it in front of them and was able to show them the townland etc being quite different.
Having said that, solicitor's DO lose deeds, it happens. We handle thousands of deeds and no matter what safety mechanisms we put in place, it can happen. But equally so does the bank, so do people lose their own deeds. That happens.
I can only advise you to move on and get on with reconstituting the title- if the solicitor even accepts that they may have had the title, they might give you a discount. Or get another solicitor.
 
Hi Vanilla, and thanks for your reply.
I was prepared to move on if I'd had a reply saying "we don't have the Deeds" but it's now 7 weeks since I left my Dads solicitor with a photocopy of my Dads journal entries in 1986 and 1992. I've now sent a letter asking for a written reply, saying that if I do not get a satisfactory reply in writing within a reasonable timeframe I will take the matter further. My father had used this firm at least since he bought his second and final family home in 1965 (and possibly his first in 1952) and the sale of his own mothers home and probate, the purchase of my older brothers home (where my brother, after threats from the Bank, had to squat in the solicitors office until he got the deeds to his house forwarded to the Bank 5 years after he had bought the house) and my mothers very modest estate and probate which didn't go too efficiently (her post office book was lost). What hurts me particularly is that the principal, who I had never met or spoken to, about a month after I first made contact with his firm re the Deeds, when his legal secretary told me that their "system showed they didn't have the Deeds" and promised to call me back and never did, and their incompetence re dating of my fathers Will (requiring an Affidavit which his secretary magnanimously informed me that he would not charge for) came on the phone to me and said " the Deeds? have you tried your fathers Bank? He didn't say "commiserations on the death of your father" (hence in my view I only have an implication that they don't have the Deeds). If you knew my father, and there will be many who will testify to his competence, the chances of him "getting it wrong" or of giving "something else entirely" are very small. Solicitors are professionals who charge very well for their services (in this case a minimum of €27k for Probate - God how much my poor father must have paid them over the years while he doffed his hat) and should keep proper records of important documents going in and out of their possession. That's the bottom line - no excuses. You receive a document, you check it like you do Vanilla and sign it in. You release a document - sign it out - SIMPLE. My father wrote in his diary "The Deeds are held by my Solicitors ............." and then added in 6 years later that the "Vesting Cert was given to said Solicitors". Of course that's not legal proof and the wonderful Law Society of Ireland will no doubt confirm that. My Dad was only one of the "little people" after all.
 
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The reference to 'little people' is damning- if that is how this solicitor makes you feel, move on. A good solicitor is no more than your equal, providing a professional service in which you should have the utmost confidence. They will have your back, they will pick up the phone and give you quick advice when you need it, and if they make a mistake and lose your deeds, they will admit it and rectify it. You need a solicitor to sell this house anyway, get a good solicitor, get their help to reconstitute the title and move on.
 
I have got another solicitor for the conveyancing. I had a brief informal chat with him regarding the Deeds situation and he says that reconstituting the Deeds is no small matter and should be avoided. He says that my Dads solicitor must have them and to wait. In the meantime he says to write to every financial institution just in case. But I'm not doing that as I know from my fathers records that he hadn't borrowed from any financial institution and had transferred any investments into State Savings. I know that I should "move on" regarding my Dads solicitor but I can't. People should not walk away from unprofessional treatment otherwise nothing will change and all the good solicitors out there end up paying part of the cost. I'll pursue this to the end to get satisfaction for my father.
 
Well it was just an informal chat on the street before I asked him to do the conveyancing. I'll wait to see what response I get from my fathers solicitor and then consult my solicitor for his considered advice. My father had told me some years ago that the Deeds were with his solicitor. The only loan he'd taken against the house since then was the Nursing Home Loan for my mother and that been settled. The only financial institution that could possibly, in my opinion, have the Deeds are his Bank and I've checked with them. His solicitor must have them but has either lost them or is not bothered to look because we haven't followed my fathers Will which stated that his solicitor should handle the probate.
 
"I'll pursue this to the end to get satisfaction for my father."

Not to put a tooth in it, but your father has passed on; it's the living who have to carry on.

It's not surprising that you appear very emotionally invested in this; but to save your sanity, not to mention several years of your life you need to take a step back.

You've been given excellent advice here from professionals; make a list of what's needed to close off your fathers estate, find another solicitor and get it done.

And no more conversations on street corners!
 
"Of course that's not legal proof and the wonderful Law Society of Ireland will no doubt confirm that."
"His solicitor must have them"

Even though you accept that you have no legal proof, you've made your mind up. But you really do need to stop - you actually can't prove that they have them or lost them but you want them to prove to you that they don't have them or didn't lose them.

Unless you have a schedule of Deeds, receipted by the solicitor, saying

"Received from VVV the attached Deeds this day of "

you don't have anything except journal entries that

(a) may be incorrect or
(b) superceded

mf
 
Ok accepted. I still think that solicitors should be obliged to keep a register. When I went to my fathers solicitor to get the Affidavit of Attesting Witness and the original Will, I had to sign for them. By the way my father also kept small pocket diaries for recording appointments. I've just today come across one from 1989 where he noted that he went with his solicitor to a meeting with the company that owned the ground rent and their solicitors. I then went to his file where he kept correspondence re house and ground rent. I notice that a couple of names on the headed notepaper from the ground rent companies solicitors are the same as a couple on the headed notepaper of my fathers solicitors. Clearly, at that time the two solicitor firms were linked so maybe the Deeds are at the second firms address. If my fathers solicitor had to bring the Deeds to that meeting then maybe he never got them returned. I'll make contact with that company tomorrow.
 
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