Advice on Accountant

If you didn't sign or give your permission for your signature to be used then that would constitute fraud in my book. You need to take positive action to protect yourself. Some good advice has been given. You should follow it as a matter of urgency.
 
Thanks for all your advice :) I needed to sort out the truth from the mis-information that I was being fed.

The other director has now returned and it turns out that he didn't even sign his own name to the accounts. He wasn't even aware that as a director he was supposed to.

It seems this accountant likes to cut through all the red-tape an regulations following small companies and just signs them all himself (or gets ome of his staff to do it)

Anyway I can let the other director deal with it now.
 
Mrs Vanecamp said:
It seems this accountant likes to cut through all the red-tape an regulations following small companies and just signs them all himself (or gets ome of his staff to do it)
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That is sure one way to cut through red tape :eek: . He could get a job signing off on Fás expense sheets. :rolleyes:
 
Graham_07 said:
That is sure one way to cut through red tape :eek: . He could get a job signing off on Fás expense sheets. :rolleyes:
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Indeed. The mind boggles.

To the OP, you should resign as a director. Your co-director was very naive and showed poor judgement to tolerate this messing. You don't have anything to gain from being exposed in this way. And you should report this accountant to his Institute, if indeed he has one.
 
ubiquitous said:
Indeed. The mind boggles.

To the OP, you should resign as a director. Your co-director was very naive and showed poor judgement to tolerate this messing. You don't have anything to gain from being exposed in this way. And you should report this accountant to his Institute, if indeed he has one.
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I agree with this.
What kind of an accountant forges his client's signatures? I don't understand this because I cannot see any advantage to the accountant for doing such a thing. In light of this I would talk to your fellow director and see if he would join you in a complaint to whatever body that accountant is a member of.
 
I would say this is indeed the case.

A guy I used to work with many moons ago left to set up his own practice as a tax advisor/accountant. Don't think he ever sat any exams apart from Leaving cert and I wouldn't be too sure of that.

He was a bit of a spoofer so it was hard to tell fact from fiction but he was definitely practising and I would pitty anyone that he was representing.

He still rings me every now and again to ask such questions as what's the difference between a company and a partnership? One time he asked me what those green forms were that Revenue were sending out - it was an assessment.

Maybe this is the guy who is representing the OP.



ubiquitous said:
And you should report this accountant to his Institute, if indeed he has one.
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I said that I would resign as director unless we got a new accountant. When my fellow director told our so called "accountant" that, he offered a member of his staff as a replacement.

A comprehensive service that few would provide but surely if the revenue ever catch up with him he has now dug himself into a hole too big to ever get out of??
 
Indeed. Resign now.

Let him take the fall now. Are his staff clueless as to their obligations as a director?
 
I don't think the Revenue would be too bothered about it, to be honest, they would see it as a matter between the taxpayer and their agent.

I expect that the ODCE would take a very dim view of it.

The guy is leaving himself wide open to be sued by any client who wants for whatever reason to disclaim responsibility for the contents of their accounts or returns.

I'm still amazed that your co-director is being advised by a clown like this guy obviously is.
 
My OH is a recently qualified accountant. This is common practice in the place she works in.
She has been asked to forge names on accounts on several occasions and has always refused which does'nt go down to well. In her office the owner glorifes one of the employees who apparently is an "excellent" forger!!!!! She also reckons the owner takes advantage of new people who tend to be to scared to refuse.
I wonder is it common practice in small accountancy firms across the country!
What part of the country Mrs Vancamp is in?
 
Jack2008 said:
She has been asked to forge names on accounts on several occasions and has always refused which does'nt go down to well. In her office the owner glorifes one of the employees who apparently is an "excellent" forger!!!!! She also reckons the owner takes advantage of new people who tend to be to scared to refuse.
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:eek:

Jack2008 said:
I wonder is it common practice in small accountancy firms across the country!
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Before this discussion started, I would have rubbished this idea, but given your story, and Mrs Vanecamp's tale, it must be common enough. You know what they say about things that are stranger than fiction :confused: :)
 
Hi Jack,

So you might have the answer as to "Why?" do accountants do this?

The staff member responsible for submitting the returns seems to be Polish (going by her accent) so maybe she could be put under pressure more easliy.

I'm in the South of the country
 
Mrs Vanecamp said:
I said that I would resign as director unless we got a new accountant. When my fellow director told our so called "accountant" that, he offered a member of his staff as a replacement.

A comprehensive service that few would provide but surely if the revenue ever catch up with him he has now dug himself into a hole too big to ever get out of??
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Can the accountant audit a company of which one of his employees is a director? (I don't know the answer to this)

Also still can't see what the advantage is to an accountant in forging his clients signatures
 
He doesn't audit the accounts, he prepare the accounts and then a report stating that the directors' are reponsible for them and then signs the directors' names to that :rolleyes:
 
Jack2008 said:
I wonder is it common practice in small accountancy firms across the country!
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There are situations, such as filing tax returns, VAT or whatever where the agent on record , if they sign the return, is deemed to sign on the client's behalf and with their approval. However even where this is legally acceptable it is the accountants name which goes on as agent. Also the client must firstly approve ( usually by the client's original signature on the face of the accounts) the accounts that form the basis of the return. I see no situation that could ever justify any accountant signing the clients name to any document. To do so constitutes forgery.
 
Unfortunately, this now appears to be quite a widespread practice, particularly with Annual Returns/Accounts.

I would think that it is down to the fact that the Accountants do not leave themselves enough time to have the Accounts completed on time and will sign off the accounts rather than have a fine with CRO.

I know of a person who forged a signature on some forms which were lodged with CRO. It was discovered when the business was going up for sale and there was due dilligence completed on the sale. Nobody knew why the person forged the signatures (they were completely harmless forms and there was no need to forge), but his professional reputation was in tatters and the practice was sued.

I would definitely report such practices and the Institute (if the Accountant is a member) will take a dim view of this.
 
MandaC said:
I would think that it is down to the fact that the Accountants do not leave themselves enough time to have the Accounts completed on time and will sign off the accounts rather than have a fine with CRO.
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It would be my experience that the No.1 cause of delay is the client not bringing in the records early enough ( despite sometimes many letters/phone calls and pleading ) for the accountant to get the returns filed on time, rather than the accountant not leaving themselves sufficient time. However that would never justify the accountant signing all the returns with the clients names on.

It is my policy on (a) letters of engagement and (b) annual year end letters to specify a 3 month maximum period after the year end by which I expect to receive the records. I clearly advise directors of the due dates and that any penalties or loss of audit exemption caused by failure by them to give me sufficient time to have the returns completed by the due dates rests entirely with them.
 
Graham_07 said:
It would be my experience that the No.1 cause of delay is the client not bringing in the records early enough ( despite sometimes many letters/phone calls and pleading ) for the accountant to get the returns filed on time, rather than the accountant not leaving themselves sufficient time. However that would never justify the accountant signing all the returns with the clients names on.

It is my policy on (a) letters of engagement and (b) annual year end letters to specify a 3 month maximum period after the year end by which I expect to receive the records. I clearly advise directors of the due dates and that any penalties or loss of audit exemption caused by failure by them to give me sufficient time to have the returns completed by the due dates rests entirely with them.
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Does this really work?
 
MandaC said:
Unfortunately, this now appears to be quite a widespread practice, particularly with Annual Returns/Accounts.

I would think that it is down to the fact that the Accountants do not leave themselves enough time to have the Accounts completed on time and will sign off the accounts rather than have a fine with CRO.
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Indeed. There is another aspect to this, which I presume motivates some accountants to throw ethics & caution out the window and submit returns to CRO with forged signatures. It relates to the client's loss of audit exemption, which in many cases causes far more headaches for the accountant/auditor than it does for the client.

If for example the accountant is aware of past (or ongoing) problems with the client, either in relation to overdrawn directors loans, failure to keep proper books of account, or other "indictable offence" breaches of company law, the accountant assumes a whole new set of responsibilities in relation to such issues the minute he signs up to become company auditor.

Among these responsibilities is a duty to report any such "indictable offences" to the ODCE. This area is an absolute minefield for auditors and they can themselves face criminal proceedings for failure to report, as well as possible negligence actions from their client if they make mistakes in this process that prejudice the client's interests.

On top of this, where the accountant is not a registered auditor, they cannot themselves audit the client and if the client's records or business is in any way messy or deficient, they will have problems getting another accountant to conduct the audit. Which means in practice that the accountant loses their client to another firm. Which provides them with an incentive to preserve audit exemption at all costs.

As a practising accountant and a registered auditor myself, I would never ever dream of forging a client's signature on a set of accounts. That said, I have sometimes gone to ridiculous lengths to facilitiate clients in order to preserve their audit exemption by ensuring they meet their CRO deadlines - for example collecting books and records in an evening, working overnight in preparing accounts from scratch, meeting the client at 7am the next morning and having accounts & B1 ready for a courier at 9am. Absolute madness, but (as the world's oldest man said when asked how was he) a lot better than the alternative. :)
 
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