3 unauthorised payments on Revolut

[DublinHead54]

What are you basing that on - that you don't think Revolut treat chargebacks different to other banks? It's a pattern with them according to the many posts on Reddit etc that they refuse to accept as fraudulent fraudulent transactions made minutes before a transaction that they deemed as fraudulent. Attempting to dispute individual transactions is met with a brick wall of their script that the transaction has been deemed to not be fraud and that they will not put through a chargeback, and of being transferred from one agent to the next in various departments. All the while this brick wall of communications wastes hours of the account holder's time, versus a few minutes onto Bank of Ireland and they totally rescind all relevant transactions pulling them completely from one's statement.

I am basing it on my expertise working in fraud risk management. In fact the approach BoI is taking whilst it might be beneficial to an individual is not the right approach and one of the reasons why 'friendly fraud' is on the rise. If anything Revolut has a better fraud detection system in place because they scrutinizing chargeback claims instead of just accepting them.

I would put significant money on Revolut having a far better fraud detection system in place than BoI.

The many posts on reddit etc are a drop in the ocean in terms of the volume of payments that Revolut are processing on a daily basis. If they truly had a systemic fraud problem they would not be operational as Visa/Mastercard would have cut them off. You also have to note that Revolut is serving a much larger customer base than BoI and such their fraud exposure can be different meaning they might have to adhere to the rules stricter than a BoI who only serves Ireland.

Your other point is related to customer service which isn't directly related to fraud.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

What are you basing that on - that you don't think Revolut treat chargebacks different to other banks? It's a pattern with them according to the many posts on Reddit etc that they refuse to accept as fraudulent fraudulent transactions made minutes before a transaction that they deemed as fraudulent. Attempting to dispute individual transactions is met with a brick wall of their script that the transaction has been deemed to not be fraud and that they will not put through a chargeback, and of being transferred from one agent to the next in various departments. All the while this brick wall of communications wastes hours of the account holder's time, versus a few minutes onto Bank of Ireland and they totally rescind all relevant transactions pulling them completely from one's statement.

Perhaps the people on Reddit are like your good self trying to blame financial institutions when it transpires your phone was stolen.

 

[dubliner8]

I am basing it on my expertise working in fraud risk management. In fact the approach BoI is taking whilst it might be beneficial to an individual is not the right approach and one of the reasons why 'friendly fraud' is on the rise. If anything Revolut has a better fraud detection system in place because they scrutinizing chargeback claims instead of just accepting them.

This doesn't answer why Revolut makes incorrect decisions on deeming transactions minutes prior (to ones they do deem as fraud) as legitimate. How is that the correct approach? I fail to see where the scrutinising comes in.

I would put significant money on Revolut having a far better fraud detection system in place than BoI.

But yet the reality is people have money stolen because of Revolut's approach which you term as "correct".

The many posts on reddit etc are a drop in the ocean in terms of the volume of payments that Revolut are processing on a daily basis. If they truly had a systemic fraud problem they would not be operational as Visa/Mastercard would have cut them off. You also have to note that Revolut is serving a much larger customer base than BoI and such their fraud exposure can be different meaning they might have to adhere to the rules stricter than a BoI who only serves Ireland.

But are the complaints a drop in the ocean? Statistics in the UK say otherwise and Revolut's transaction volume there would be much smaller than those of the traditional banks so the complaints per user base would be far higher.

Revolut fraud complaints to Ombudsman outstrip all banks - Which? News

Customers who've lost money are going to the Financial Ombudsman Service

www.which.co.uk

 

[thedaddyman]

I don't think Revolut treat chargeback claims different to Bank of Ireland or any other Bank. They are all governed by the same rules and regulations.

Wording on both websites indicate that 'fraud' is a legitimate reason for raising a chargeback. However, based on the information provided a chargeback claim should be straight forward in this case, it is strange for them to refuse a chargeback when they already labelled one transaction as fraud. So I suggest starting a formal complete or disputing the individual transactions.

To defend a chargeback, you have to be able to prove you provided a service and the transaction was approved. So if the shop in question can provide proof that a service or goods were given and if the system says, the transaction was approved then it becomes a "he said/she said" argument.

My experience, as working for an online retailer in the past, is that the majority of chargebacks can be defended successfully. Key question here really is, was the transaction approved and if so, how. So

• was the OP's phone or app cloned in someway,
• were their log in details exposed in some way, either accidentally or via a hack or malware.
• had the OP in someway marked a merchant as a trusted merchant meaning 3ds and alerts were not triggered
• Was the merchant's site itself cloned and then masked in some way
• Is this a redirect fraud where somewhere along the line, a genuine transaction gets cloned or redirected somewhere else. Redirects are becoming a major focus on PCI compliance

 

[DublinHead54]

This doesn't answer why Revolut makes incorrect decisions on deeming transactions minutes prior (to ones they do deem as fraud) as legitimate. How is that the correct approach? I fail to see where the scrutinising comes in.

I don't have all the details in this case, maybe it is bad customer service, but there is a path to raise a legitimate chargeback.

But yet the reality is people have money stolen because of Revolut's approach which you term as "correct".

You have twisted my words. It is standard practice to investigate chargebacks claims, not everyone does it. Who do you think pays? The bank isn't handing over their own money back to you, they pass it down to the merchant. So whilst you may get the benefit of getting your money back and think the Bank did a good thing, they've just passed the cost to the merchant and per my earlier comment this is exploited by fraudsters also. If you owned a business how would you feel if banks just pushed every chargeback cost back to you?

If chargebacks aren't investigated that would mean everything I ever buy online I could just raise a chargeback that I never received it and never pay for anything (in the extreme).

In the situation of Revolut they likely have higher fraud rates thus are questioning chargebacks more, as soon as BoIs rates hit a certain threshold they will do the same then you will be complaining about BoI.

 

[DublinHead54]

To defend a chargeback, you have to be able to prove you provided a service and the transaction was approved. So if the shop in question can provide proof that a service or goods were given and if the system says, the transaction was approved then it becomes a "he said/she said" argument.

My experience, as working for an online retailer in the past, is that the majority of chargebacks can be defended successfully. Key question here really is, was the transaction approved and if so, how. So

• was the OP's phone or app cloned in someway,
• were their log in details exposed in some way, either accidentally or via a hack or malware.
• had the OP in someway marked a merchant as a trusted merchant meaning 3ds and alerts were not triggered
• Was the merchant's site itself cloned and then masked in some way
• Is this a redirect fraud where somewhere along the line, a genuine transaction gets cloned or redirected somewhere else. Redirects are becoming a major focus on PCI compliance

Agree with all that, but that's usually when the issuing bank has pushed the chargeback through right and then the merchant has the ability to challenge it? In this case the Op is saying revolut have refused the chargeback when they likely have no liability. OP seemed to suggest it was an Antiques store in Chile, so I assume it is a case of Card Not Present in which the merchant would have a payment processor who would likely take the hit and then try and reclaim funds from the merchant.

I just find it strange that the issuing bank would decline a chargeback on a Card-Not-Present Fraud. If they have, then a formal complaint should be made.

 

[peemac]

Chargeback rules changed a couple of years ago when 2fa became mandatory.

If 2FA is enabled, then the only reason for chargeback is non delivery or non supply for "card not present" transactions.

If it's a physical transaction, PIN or other security confirmation (phone) means the transaction can't be challenged.

The only area a retailer needs to be very careful with is phone orders where the card number is physically keyed in. In that situation the retailer has to be sure of the validity

 

[FarmerMel]

I would like to know if anyone was successful in talking to someone in Revolut. I had 600 euro ( 3 seperate, consecutive transactions) removed from my account. I received no authentication codes and have not shared my details with anyone. Revolut noted the 'suspicious activity' and blocked the 4th attempt which I confirmed and they have recorded as a status of Declined:Fraudulent.

Revolut have overlooked all my evidence and have claimed that the chargeback was unsuccessful as there is no evidence of fraudulent activity on my account . The 3 transactions were made from 19.00 and 19.02 which is not humanely possible. The police have confirmed that these transactions are fraudulent and have completed a report . Again Revolut have overlooked this, telling me there is no fraudulent activity. I have screen shot evidence confirming no receipt of authentication codes , the only notice I got from Revolut on the day was telling me they had blocked my card.

Any advice from anyone is really really welcome as to how to proceed. Im thinking of the national airwaves next given I did not share any of my details and expected to be notified if an Antiques shop in Chile was looking for payments.

I would like to know if anyone was successful in talking to someone in Revolut. I had 600 euro ( 3 seperate, consecutive transactions) removed from my account. I received no authentication codes and have not shared my details with anyone. Revolut noted the 'suspicious activity' and blocked the 4th attempt which I confirmed and they have recorded as a status of Declined:Fraudulent.

Revolut have overlooked all my evidence and have claimed that the chargeback was unsuccessful as there is no evidence of fraudulent activity on my account . The 3 transactions were made from 19.00 and 19.02 which is not humanely possible. The police have confirmed that these transactions are fraudulent and have completed a report . Again Revolut have overlooked this, telling me there is no fraudulent activity. I have screen shot evidence confirming no receipt of authentication codes , the only notice I got from Revolut on the day was telling me they had blocked my card.

Any advice from anyone is really really welcome as to how to proceed. Im thinking of the national airwaves next given I did not share any of my details and expected to be notified if an Antiques shop in Chile was looking for payments.

Hi Sinead123.

Sorry to hear about the fraudulent transactions that have happened to you in regards to Revolut.

The same thing happened to me when on holiday in Portugal on the 08 of May this year. I made the last purchase with my Revolut card at 10:05pm and then at 10:55 to 10:56pm within the hour I had travelled from Portugal to wait for it Santiago Chile and spent money in a gift shop clothes shop and coffee shop.

When I put a chargeback on the fraudulent activity they replied that it was not a fraudulent case as my card number and pin had been used in the transaction. Like you I did not not receive a transaction text message about the 3 transaction either. Very strange that whoever done this was able to not overdraw my account, if yours was the same?

I used to move money from my Revolut vault to my main account in dribs and drabs, it's only a debit card after all.Revolut don't want to know and won't help only bot answers. I received a final email from their complaints department.So all I have done is forwarded it and a complaint from to the Financial services pension ombudsman to see if they can do anything. Check them out on line.

Will be interesting to see if many more people had the same type of 3 fraudulent withdrawals.

Best of luck.

 

[Bluefin]

That's why I find it hard to understand how a lot of these thefts don't involve negligence by the cardholder.

I'm quite belt and braces - I keep no more than €100 in any main wallet (rest in the vaults) and I turn off all features like ATM withdrawals, contactless payments, or online purchases.

If a thief has possession of either my card or my phone and not my PIN then there is literally no fraud they can execute that I can think of.

Wasn’t aware of these features in Revolut…good to know. Are these features available for piller banks current accounts?
I see in Revolut that Apple Pay is not impacted if these features are disabled. What does this mean?

 

[FarmerMel]

I would like to know if anyone was successful in talking to someone in Revolut. I had 600 euro ( 3 seperate, consecutive transactions) removed from my account. I received no authentication codes and have not shared my details with anyone. Revolut noted the 'suspicious activity' and blocked the 4th attempt which I confirmed and they have recorded as a status of Declined:Fraudulent.

Revolut have overlooked all my evidence and have claimed that the chargeback was unsuccessful as there is no evidence of fraudulent activity on my account . The 3 transactions were made from 19.00 and 19.02 which is not humanely possible. The police have confirmed that these transactions are fraudulent and have completed a report . Again Revolut have overlooked this, telling me there is no fraudulent activity. I have screen shot evidence confirming no receipt of authentication codes , the only notice I got from Revolut on the day was telling me they had blocked my card.

Any advice from anyone is really really welcome as to how to proceed. Im thinking of the national airwaves next given I did not share any of my details and expected to be notified if an Antiques shop in Chile was looking for payments.

Hello again Sinead123 . I sent in my complaint against Revolut and got a reply from the FSIO.ie they're very interested and surprised with the matter and looking into it. I would advise you and anyone else that this has happened to to do the same, especially if it was a 3 payment withdrawal.