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  #1  
Old 29-08-2008, 11:25 AM
Shindig Shindig is offline
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Default Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Hi all, I'm new to this site and am looking for some advice.

Basically my husband walked out on me and our 3 kids 2 years ago. We were building our new home at the time and our 3 kids and I moved in Dec '06. He moved to England and we got divorced July '07 (married in Australia). He made 1 payment into mortgage last year and nothing has been paid since. We have gone through the whole court process in England and the final judgement was made at the end of May this year. But ex-h has refused to pay what was ordered and since early July has been made bankrupt in England. He is paying very basic maintenance and at the moment it is being topped up with SWA. I'm hoping that the lone parents will be sorted within the next 2 wks.
For obvious reasons I have not being paying the mortgage but I have kept up with the Life assurance policy and home insurance each month (250 p.m.).
It is only a matter of time before the bank will resposess our home and the arrears are increasing substantially each month as the mortgage is 1,500 p.m. Can anybody tell me what is the process of handing back the keys to the bank and what are the repercussions of this. I just need to put a stop to the increase in arrears and my stress levels are also increasing. It just appears that everything has been landed onto my lap and he just walks away without a care in the world.
FYI he does not come to see kids nor does he call them - all contact is by email which I believe will subside soon.
I forgot to mention that kids and I live in Ireland and our home is here also.

Thanks to advise
Shindig
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  #2  
Old 29-08-2008, 11:30 AM
jhegarty jhegarty is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank?????? Need advice

Are you in positive or negative equity ?
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  #3  
Old 29-08-2008, 11:35 AM
Shindig Shindig is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank?????? Need advice

About 50k neg equity
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Old 29-08-2008, 11:39 AM
csirl csirl is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank?????? Need advice

Probably not the answer you want to hear, but the UK concept of getting out of a mortgage by "handing back the keys" does not exist in Ireland, so you cant do it. If you can no longer afford the house and want to dispose of it, you are responsible for selling it and paying back the owed money to the bank.

Have you spoken to the bank about the situation? If you are in arrears, you should maintain regular contact with them so that they are up to speed with your circumstances.

Who's name is the house in and what was agreed concerning it in the divorce settlement?
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  #5  
Old 29-08-2008, 11:49 AM
Shindig Shindig is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank?????? Need advice

I have been in regular contact with the bank from the word go - even before we moved into house so they have been informed of everything - I did not hide anything from them.
Ex-h was ordered to pay a weekly amount in maintenance, pay my legal fees and also the title deeds were to be changed into my name but him still on the mortgage. Ex-h did not show up for the court hearing.
Spoke with my community welfare officer yesterday and she informed me that I probably would not get the mortgage interest supplement as it is too high but a final decision has not been made on this yet.
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  #6  
Old 29-08-2008, 12:24 PM
dem_syhp dem_syhp is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Have you been in touch with MABS?

I appreciate that you are in a different position to others where it's your ex-husband that's defaulting and I don't know how this sits in Irish Law.

You could also post information as suggested in the key post of this section, here. People might be able to suggest where you can save and potentially bring in more income. I appreciate it's not your direct question.
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  #7  
Old 29-08-2008, 12:40 PM
Shindig Shindig is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

I have spoken with MABS but I have not approached them about handing back the keys - I have been trying to get hold of the person I deal with this week to get advice.
If I was to go back to work it would cost me a fortune in childcare and travel costs as my kids are 6, 3.5 and 2 - It would not be viable at the moment.
What I get each between SWA and maintenance totals 269 so there is not much left over after paying the bills.
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  #8  
Old 29-08-2008, 12:57 PM
Brendan Burgess Brendan Burgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank?????? Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by csirl View Post
the UK concept of getting out of a mortgage by "handing back the keys" does not exist in Ireland,
Interestingly enough, it doesn't really apply in the UK either! If the bank repossesses the home, they are entitled to pursue the borrower for and deficit after selling the house.

In practice, they will probably write it off, if they feel that they have no hope of recovering it.

Shindig

It is much better, if at all possible, that you sell the house yourself and pay the proceeds to the bank. If the bank sells it, they will just sell it at any price. It's unlikely that they will come after you for the deficit, but it's better to keep the deficit as low as possible anyway.

And as you realize that you have to sell it, you don't want all the hassle and expense of court actions.

Have you been onto the Local Authority about housing? After you sell your home, you will need somewhere to live.

Brendan
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  #9  
Old 29-08-2008, 01:43 PM
bacchus bacchus is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig View Post
I have kept up with the Life assurance policy and home insurance each month (250 p.m.).
That seems very very high, 3000 per year. Have you considered reviewing this?
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  #10  
Old 29-08-2008, 06:48 PM
askalot askalot is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank?????? Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
Interestingly enough, it doesn't really apply in the UK either! If the bank repossesses the home, they are entitled to pursue the borrower for and deficit after selling the house.

In practice, they will probably write it off, if they feel that they have no hope of recovering it.
Not really. I worked with an English bloke who 'handed' the keys to his house in England back to the bank during the last crash in the 90s. He came over here to work and five years later they came looking for the 75,000 sterling that was outstanding after the sale of his house. It dragged on but he eventually had to pay.
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  #11  
Old 29-08-2008, 08:58 PM
Shindig Shindig is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Thanks a million for all your replies.

I have tried to reduce the life assurance policy but no go. They would need his signature as well and he will not give this. I do not know where in the world he is working at the moment as he is an aircraft engineer and works as a contractor.

Brendan my reasoning behind handing the bank the keys now is so that the arrears will not increase any more. As you are probably aware by the repayments the house is quite big and is situated in the country and probably not in a location most people would be interested in. It also needs a lot of work done to it eg. landscaping, septic tank problems, fencing, etc.. As his lordship has been declared bankrupt in England the bank here has told me that they will not be chasing him.

The feedback I'm getting is that the house will not sell easily more especially in the current climate. So if I put the house up for sale and it does not sell within the next 3 months for example then the arrears will have increased by 4,500. The stress of it all is getting too much for me and is affecting my homelife with my 3 kids - I need to end it all now with this house and move on with our lives.

My brother has a house down the road from us which he is going to do up and I am going to apply for rent allowance - I am currently pulling strings to get on the council listing as I applied ages ago and nobody has come to interview me yet.

Shindig
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  #12  
Old 29-08-2008, 10:55 PM
ClubMan ClubMan is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Handing back the keys will not in itself absolve you of any responsibility for this situation. To do that you need to get your name off the mortgage deeds etc. Selling is an obvious way of doing this. Regardless of the history leading to this situation you are responsible for the mortgage debt and arrears so you need to think about realistic ways of dealing with this problem. What did MABS advise when you contacted them?
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  #13  
Old 30-08-2008, 01:14 PM
Shindig Shindig is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

The guy from MABS told me that if the bank do look for monies to be repaid then it will be at what I can afford each week/month. So I will be paying back for the rest of my days. My arguement also is when this mortgage was taken out it was based on his earnings as I was not working at the time but as the bank keeps on telling me that we are both jointly and severally liable.
Selling will not absolve me of any responsibilities either as there will be still a large amount of monies owing - also I cannot afford to pay for estate agent and legal fees for the sale.
I am being very realistic here - I'm screwed because of ex-h walking away free from all of this without a care in the world and not being made to pay a penny. He can earn in 1 week alone (over 6k Stg) and has done this year. As I have previously mentioned I have 3 kids. If I go back to work - what I earn goes on childcare and travel expences as I do not have formal education behind me I will probably be on minimum wage. If I work at something from home then I will lose my LPA. My options are very limited and whichever way I turn there will always be a defecit which is up to me to clear.
I am trying to do the best that I can in the situation that I am in but I cannot let it go on any further. I am desperate for help.
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  #14  
Old 30-08-2008, 04:40 PM
Marietta Marietta is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Shindig, I am very sorry to read of your plight, it's dreadful that your ex earns 6,000 a week and not pay a penny towards the family home, little does he care of the innocent little children he helped bring into the world. What I don't understand is why don't you go back to the courts in England and demand higher maintenance. Also, if your ex is earning 6000 a week, how does he manage to bank it, I was of the impression that once a person is made bankrupt they are not allowed to have much in a bank account or not allowed to have any bank account at all. I wish I had more to say or to offer you but it looks like the odds are stacked against you. It is very very unfair.
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  #15  
Old 30-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Shindig Shindig is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Marietta
He works as a contractor through agencies in the UK. These agencies pay him through an umbrella company offshore. If I knew where he was working I could possibly find out what agency he works for. For the final court hearing in England my solicitor summonsed the agency he was working for at that time for a statement of his income for the last 2 years. I had no idea he was earning that amount of money.
I do believe that he has money stashed in either his partner's account or offshore somewhere but I cannot prove it.
There is no point in demanding higher maintenance as he is not and will not pay what has originally been ordered. I do think at the present time for bankruptcy purposes that he has taken a lower paying job - cause the poor soul cannot afford to support his 3 kids.
At the final court hearing the judge did want to put an attachment of earnings order on his wages but because the contracts were a contract of services rather than employment, he could not do so.
I also do believe that for his statement of bankruptcy he lied through his teeth but because I cannot get a copy of this statement then I cannot prove this. He has lied in his affidavitt of means for ancillary relief proceedings and on questionnaires which were lodged into the courts and because of this the judge ordered that he pay my legal fees, which of course has not been done yet.
I have asked my solicitor in England to forward on a copy of his statment of income from his previous employers to the insolvency agency in England because unlike here, he will be discharged from bankruptcy next June.
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  #16  
Old 30-08-2008, 05:04 PM
Brendan Burgess Brendan Burgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Shindig

I am not sure if you fully appreciate that handing back the keys does not stop the arrears from rising. It is a meaningless exercize. Stay in the house until you have managed to sell it yourself.

You can pay the legal fees and the auctioneers' fees from the proceeds of sale, although you might need to get the bank's permission in advance to do this.

Brendan
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  #17  
Old 30-08-2008, 05:33 PM
Shindig Shindig is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Brendan what happens if the house does not sell?? What will happen to the arrears?? They are over 30k at the moment. House is in 50k negative equity! I do not believe that the bank will take a hit for 50k plus. Is it not best to stop now and let the bank do what they will.
I have been told by mabs that the bank will not reposess this house as in the country word gets around and if people know that the bank took a house from a lone parent with 3 young kids - nobody will buy it.
I cannot take the chance of owing more than what is outstanding already
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  #18  
Old 30-08-2008, 05:34 PM
Susanna Susanna is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Dear Shindig,

So sorry for all the stress you are going through. I am sure everything will work out for you in the end...just hang on in there and get help fom all the available agencies here in Ireland.

If you contact a social worker they will offer you advice (because you have 3 vulnerable kids) and will get you priority housing when you have sold your other house.

Contact the Community welfare officer they will give you a list of your entitlements.

You could try the rollercoaster website to see if any Mums near you could mind your kids for a few hours (or friends) if you have to get out and work.

Could you rent this house and move in with friends?
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  #19  
Old 30-08-2008, 07:15 PM
Brendan Burgess Brendan Burgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Quote:
I cannot take the chance of owing more than what is outstanding already
Sorry Shindig

But you are missing the point. Whether or not you "hand back the keys" this will continue. After you vacate the house, the interest will continue to pile up on it until the house is sold and the loan paid off or reduced.

What about Susanna's idea of renting the house if you are able to move in with your brother? Presumably you would not get a rent allowance if you are renting out a home which you own.

You have already met the bank. You should meet them again and ask them what they want you to do. You should follow this up with a letter confirming what has been agreed. They will not take legal action while you are trying to solve the problem.

If you sell the house and are left with, say, a €70k deficit, you will still owe the bank €70k but they will not be able to do anything about it. They might go after your ex husband though. They are experts in going after people with money.

Brendan
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  #20  
Old 30-08-2008, 08:07 PM
Marietta Marietta is offline
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Default Re: Hand back Keys to Bank - Need advice

Shindig, Put the house up for sale yourself. Brendan is right they can't chase you for the money, they'll know you haven't got it. Great if they can catch up with that ex husband though... Take care of yourself and your kids and PG everything will work out ok for you.
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