Summons for no TV license

My student daughter got a registered letter yesterday with a summons for having no TV License in the flat. Her name (both first and surname ) are not spelt correctly. She got no visit from a TVLI or any warning. Due in court in late Dec. Any advise. Does she just buy a tv license now, turn up and explain and apologise to the court and get on with it. Any comments, please.

Any advise. Does she just buy a tv license now, turn up and explain and apologise to the court and get on with it. Any comments, please.

Click to expand...

Probably the best course of action.

. She got no visit from a TVLI or any warning.

Click to expand...

Cable and satellite TV companies are required to give the TV license people their customer lists. If e.g. NTL says they hooked up your daughters TV for cable, then this is all the proof they need.

Her name (both first and surname ) are not spelt correctly.

Click to expand...

A lot of Judges now days are intolerant of people trying to get off because of misspelling on summons if it is clear who the summons was intended for. She should ask for the spelling to be corrected, but it would be dangerous for her to claim that the summons is not for her if it is clear to everyone that she is the intended recipient. In any event, even if the Judge did throw the case out due to the misspelling, they'd just issue your daughter with another summons with correct spelling which would mean a second trip to court for her.

Unless someone is in court to testify that they have seen a TV in her house the case will be throw out.....


She shouldn't lie about having a TV , but she doesn't have to give evidence against herself...

Unless someone is in court to testify that they have seen a TV in her house the case will be throw out.....


She shouldn't lie about having a TV , but she doesn't have to give evidence against herself...

Click to expand...

Bear in mind that District Court Cases are summary hearings in which both parties agree to proceed, quite often because the facts are generally known. If your daughter does have a TV and doesnt have a license, you shouldnt pretend otherwise or try to act the smart alec by saying "where's the proof" etc.

If you do decide to go down the "where's the proof" route, its likely that the TV License people will appeal to the Circuit Criminal Court and have the case dealt with as a full blown criminal case in a more formal court setting with Barristers, jury etc & where witnesses are summonses etc etc. rather than a short and painless District Court hearing. The TV license people would then summons e.g. NTL technican who fitted cable or whoever else physically saw a TV in your daughters possession.

If you daughter is innocent (i.e. didnt have a TV without a license) then by all means fight the charge. But if she's guilty, she'll more likely get a stiffer sentance if shes uncooperative. The best outcome for you in this case is the District Court slap across the wrist, no criminal record and contibution to poor box. If it goes to Circuit Court, she will have a criminal record that she will have to declare if she loses.

she would have received at least two or three warning notices prior to the actual summons being issued. what happened to these? Buy the licence, ring the tv licence section and they may just scrap the court appearance. Should have done that with the warnings though. if your daughter is in rented accommodation there is a possability that one of the other students gave her name to the inspector and (conspiracy theory) didn't tell your lassie about the visit.

Thanks very much for the relpies. They do not have any account with the likes of NTL or SKY. (can't afford it) They have a 14" TV and a dvd player to watch movies. I take the point about being a smart alec so I think I will council her, to say that she is a student and the first indication she had either by visit or letter was the summons, where by she bought a license, which she can have in her hand and offer an apology for any misunderstand. (and hope the fine is not too great )

When I was in college we put off buying the tv licence as long as possible, as students tend to do (it's much more tempting tp put the money towards cheap vodka!).
I think we got a summons in the end, which prompted us to buy the licence pretty quickly, and I think this put an end to the whole thing. When she buys the licence it might be worth checking with the tv licence people if they will then cancel proceedings.

Had the same experience - if you buy the licence before the court date, the court appearance is cancelled as the 'crime' is no longer in existence

aaa1 said:

Had the same experience - if you buy the licence before the court date, the court appearance is cancelled as the 'crime' is no longer in existence

Click to expand...

Not true - the offence is not having the tv licence on the date specified on the summons. But its a lot better to have one when you do go to Court. Shows willing.

mf

csirl said:

Bear in mind that District Court Cases are summary hearings in which both parties agree to proceed, quite often because the facts are generally known. If your daughter does have a TV and doesnt have a license, you shouldnt pretend otherwise or try to act the smart alec by saying "where's the proof" etc.

If you do decide to go down the "where's the proof" route, its likely that the TV License people will appeal to the Circuit Criminal Court and have the case dealt with as a full blown criminal case in a more formal court setting with Barristers, jury etc & where witnesses are summonses etc etc. rather than a short and painless District Court hearing. The TV license people would then summons e.g. NTL technican who fitted cable or whoever else physically saw a TV in your daughters possession.

If you daughter is innocent (i.e. didnt have a TV without a license) then by all means fight the charge. But if she's guilty, she'll more likely get a stiffer sentance if shes uncooperative. The best outcome for you in this case is the District Court slap across the wrist, no criminal record and contibution to poor box. If it goes to Circuit Court, she will have a criminal record that she will have to declare if she loses.

Click to expand...

All I can say is that is not how district court hearings are conducted.
Having no TV licence is a summary offence and as such is tried in the district court. In order to get a conviction the prosecution, in this case An Post must present evidence of the offence. To do this they will call the inspector as a witness. He or she will then give evidence of calling to the address at the date in question and having asked the occupant for a valid licence and no licence being produced obtained the name of the occupant.
The inspector will have to give evidence regardless of what plea is entered by the accused. The judge will decide the case on its merits there and then. In the absence of the inspectors evidence the accused will be aquitted.
This will go no where near the circuit criminal courts (are you a tv licence inspector trying to frighten the OP?) If the accused wins and gets off An Post are very unlikely to appeal. If the accused is convicted they will face a fine of up to €635 but if a licence is purchased prior to the court the fine is likely only to be around €100.

if your daughter is in rented accommodation there is a possability that one of the other students gave her name to the inspector and (conspiracy theory) didn't tell your lassie about the visit.

Click to expand...

This has happened in the past. As the inspectors don't ask for ID, they just take what name is given it should be contested if someone simply gave her name.

The Tv Licence Inspector does actually have to call to the house and obtain a name to send letters to. I know there was talk of An Post trying to obtain lists of cable tv customers from sky/ntl, but I dont think that it was actually passed. It is highly likely that one of the other students gave your daughters name when confronted.

Once they have a name, it goes straight into the database and the reminders, etc start coming.

My sister saw a man who seemed to be interfering in peoples bins on the road opposite. She phoned the guards as the bins were outside sitting room windows and it looked like he was trying to break into houses. Gards came and it eventually turned out that it was the TV Licence Inspector taking names from the bin stickers to send letters to. He is not supposed to do this and as far as I can remember was told to stop by the gardai. I would think 9 times out of 10 once the person got the letter they would pay up, so it would have quite a success rate!

Also they must gain access to the property to ascertain that there is a tv in the house before they can prosecute, believe it or not, not everyone has a tv. They can't prosecute on the strength of a name alone. I would suspect that by not verifying the name, by asking for ID for example it would put them on very dodgy ground.

MandaC said:

The Tv Licence Inspector does actually have to call to the house and obtain a name to send letters to. I know there was talk of An Post trying to obtain lists of cable tv customers from sky/ntl, but I dont think that it was actually passed. It is highly likely that one of the other students gave your daughters name when confronted.

Once they have a name, it goes straight into the database and the reminders, etc start coming.

My sister saw a man who seemed to be interfering in peoples bins on the road opposite. She phoned the guards as the bins were outside sitting room windows and it looked like he was trying to break into houses. Gards came and it eventually turned out that it was the TV Licence Inspector taking names from the bin stickers to send letters to. He is not supposed to do this and as far as I can remember was told to stop by the gardai. I would think 9 times out of 10 once the person got the letter they would pay up, so it would have quite a success rate!

Click to expand...

This is very interesting, does anyone actually know what the exact position is here ?


Because i moved into a new house three weeks ago (rented) and i came home the other day to find a card and counterfoil (like from a ticket) in the letterbox the other day giving me (named) 10 days to aquire a licence.
The bin was outside the house and the only possible way he could have got the name was off the bin,he did not gain access to the house fullstop.
Also i have lived in this estate for a no. of years and i know my name is on at least 2 other bins in the estate (bin tags).
This to me seems highly irregular carry on from an post,because at the end of the day they deliver the post and know exactly who lives where,but legally are not allowed just to put a name down.

Any views ?

Is there any chance the landlord gave them the name?

In any event it appears from the 1926 Act that the MInister must write to you first seeking a declaration as to whether you have a tv or not.

Stifster said:

Is there any chance the landlord gave them the name?.

Click to expand...

No chance , i haven't seen him since the day i moved in and he wouldn't even give me a forwarding address.It was definitely taken off the bin,there's no other way he could possibly have got it.

Things have changed since I was a student! We got a notice about the TV licence, but we just got rid of the TV. Never heard anything more, but I can't remember what the letter was exactly.

BTW, DH insisted on cutting out the part of the bin tag (the sticker on the bin) that has our name on it, and doesn't fill in that part of the bin tag that you put on when you put the bin out. Looks like he has a point!

If they did get it from the bin, then it is more than likely that a letter will come addressed to Mr. XXXX or the Occupier, stating that there is no record of a tv licence at that address and that the inspector is going to call and you will get a fine, blah, blah, blah.

that she saw the guy interfering with the houses/bins. We were in the same area, so I'd say the same inspector

Usually if Mr. X does live at that address then he will know the game is up and will just have to buy a licence. The second letter that comes with your name on it will come with a statutory declaration. It is a legal declaration and by law you have to complete it within I think 14 days. On the declaration, you are declaring whether or not you have a tv. If you do send back the declaration, then again the name is confirmed.

If you do not complete the declaration, it will be sent to you again by registered post. By collecting the registered post for Mr. XXX then you are confirming that you are indeed Mr. X, so their records are proved correct.

If its not collected, the same process starts again.....Dear Mr. X or the Occupier. The TV Licence Inspector does have to actually call and make contact, but once they have your name, 80% of people will actually pay.

Bear in mind, a summons cannot come in the name of the occupier and thats why it is so important to An Post to have the name.

Bear in mind, a summons cannot come in the name of the occupier and thats why it is so important to An Post to have the name.

Click to expand...

But it seems they are content with any old name, esp when they don't verify it by reference to ID etc.

Down my way it is the local postman that acts as the informant for them. I was not a week in my new house when a letter addressed to me personally arrived telling me to get a licence or else. The only way they could have got my name was the postman. Needless to say I did buy a licence that week.

They are content with "any old name", but if they get the wrong name, say, you will ring and say, well Mr. XXx does not live here, I do. Then hey, presto, they still have the name.

I know someone who has not had a TV Licence for 15 years, despite the Inspector calling a couple of times. Not going to say how its done, as its telling people how to be dishonest, but he got away with it and still is, as far as I know. Needs a real brass neck. Dont think I would be bothered for the price of the thing.

The aera i live in has a huge no. of rental properties with lots of people moving in and out,the bins are done on a tag system but the person who actually got the bin and hence has their name on it may be long gone.I actually have no issue paying the licence and would have got around to it as i had one in my previous place.
My issue is that if An Post are going to start issuing warnings/summonses on the most flimsy of evidence against people who may have long gone then this is quite a serious matter.
Absolute Worst case senario is person who has long gone,gets a no. of warnings issued (current tenants don't care) then a summons,doesn't turn up in court (as why would they even know) gets fined ,doesn't pay.
Has a commital warrent issued against them, their out on the town some night and get arrested for some minor offence and suddenly find themselves being conveyed to mountjoy on foot of warrent till the whole thing is sorted out.

Now if someone tells me they must verify the occupant,well then i'd say fair enough.