Is Royal Liver likely to demutualise soon ?

I hear Royal Liver are likely to demutualise soon. How can I open an account that would get a windfall, and how much are windfalls likely to be ?

Have you read this already?

pub145.ezboard.com/faskab...=160.topic

It doesn't say how much the windfall is likely to be though. The FT today said that the average windfall from Standard Life will be £1,500 - £2,000.

Is RL likely to be as much as that do you think ?

Hi OomPa

The straight answer to your question is no one really knows exactly how much a windfall you or I might get, if we are members of Royal Liver & it demutualises.


* Royal Liver is a mutual & capable of demutualising, paying it's members a windfall

* Royal Liver has a history of returning a poorer level of growth than many other life companies. As such, one might argue that the company does not have the same value as many other competitors - resulting in a lower value windfall

* To the best of my knowledge, Royal Liver is still offering With Profits policys to new members, without asking them to waive their rights to a potential windfall. AFAIK, the minimum entry is now €75 per month, on a regular savings, With Profits, policy - watch out of the charges, if your thinking of signing up !

* Royal Liver has a somewhat unique voting structure - whereby delegates represent members from different locations. From memory, Ireland used to have 50 delgates, out of 250 in total. If you & others want to see the society demutualise, then you need to convey your feelings to these delegates who will make representation on your behalf - assuming your a With Profits member of the society & can convince them

Hope this helps

Regards

G>
www.rpoints.com/newbie

its deffintilly 30 pm min investment in the with profits policy unless it has changed in the last 6 weeks
i signed up online at the royal liver web site for the above amount
the reps from the company will tell you its 75 pm but don't listen as 30pm is comming out of my account and you get the full rights the same as if you spent 75pm
He told me i could do one in my son's name but then he would not be intialed to any shares or rights as he is under 18
even a few of my friends signed up for 75 pm in the last month even after me telling then on line is on 30

its deffintilly 30 pm min investment in the with profits policy unless it has changed in the last 6 weeks
i signed up online at the royal liver web site for the above amount

There is also an option on the Royal Liver site for a with profits lump sum savings a/c min savings E1500. Might this be a good alternative to a regular savings a/c and would it lead to a pay out on demutilisation.

Also is it still possible to open a standard life with profits a/c or are the shutters down?

Do the Two Year Rule apply here
Is it worth the €1500 tied up for Ten Years??
JR

Hi JR

In response to your question, I think it's up to the members to vote in favour of a particular qualification period, when demutualisation is considered.

While there are statutory limitations, the bottom line with Royal Liver at the moment is that their AGM for 2004 will not have so much as a mention of demtualisation at it, unless something comes up under AOB.

- Royal Liver have a representative voting structure, whereby 250 delegates (I think 50 represent Ireland) vote on behalf of the membership .... so if Royal Liver members want to get a demtualisation, they need to get these delegates voting the "right way"

Regards

G>

Pardon my ignorance, but if I'm reading these posts right am I correct in saying that If I Open up a saving account for minimum 30e per month this week, then I could be in line for a windfall should the company demutualise in the near future ???

Can anyone give me the website ??

Hi Interested

In a matter of speaking, Yes, your correct. At this time, there is nothing to prevent a new With Profits policy holder qualifying for a windfall, in the event of a demutualisation.

However, a couple of things to be aware of first:

* there are no guarantees, Royal Liver may not never demutualise

* your entering a savings type policy, where the performance of the policy may result in you losing a higher rate of return, which could be obtained elsewhere

* your funds are committed for a specified period of time and you may incur a penalty if you try to cash them in prior to maturity etc

- at a guess, I think the website is something like royalliver.com / ie ?

regards

G>
www.rpoints.com/newbie

And don't forget that the fees you pay on your RL policy are quite high.

Any idea what the historical rate of return on the policy is chaps ?

Rainyday

What are you comparing the charges with ? ... it's all relative my friend, although in comparison with other life companies, I believe Royal Liver's charges are a little higher



Hi Noel,

The past 3 years have seen low returns on my policy, in the order of 2.5% - 3% pa added to the value of the policy. Not a great return imho, but perhaps slightly more than I would have obtained from a bank ?

... RL have this lovely habbit of sending out these little letters with the announcement of the annual bonus, suggesting that it's been another difficult year on the stock markets etc etc etc They further go on to imply that they are providing for our future as members, suggesting that upon maturity, we will be better off as a result of this cautious approach to the application of annual bonuses (ie that the terminal bonus will be a super dooper bonus !)

What I'm not sure about is:

* Are RL actually playing it safer than Equitable or Standard Life ever did, by not giving away too much in each years annual bonus ?

* Or, are RL not performing aswell as other life companies & as such, not doing the best for the membership. Needless to say, if this is the case then it's time to push for a demutualisation as the members interests would be better served by a PLC etc

Any thoughts ?

Regards

G>
www.Rpoints.com/newbie

What are you comparing the charges with ? ... it's all relative my friend, although in comparison with other life companies, I believe Royal Liver's charges are a little higher

Last time I looked, they were still charging 5% bid/offer spreads. That's a LOT higher than market leaders like QL or EBS. It sounds to me like RL's sales team have stumbled on a great way to pull in the punters - spread a few demut rumours and let the suckers come piling in without having any idea of the fees being charged on their investments or the size of any possible windfall.

AFAIK, Royal Liver are making decent money++ on 'industrial branch' policies i.e. door to door collections, are a subsidiary of an english company, and have no need to demutualise anytime soon. If you did invest in one of their policies, the amount of your premium eaten up in charges would soon outweigh any prospective return from demutualisation.

I took out a 10 with profit policy about 3 years ago with RL and the breakeven point in the quote issued with the policy was 10 years !

Premium: €25.39 pm
Sum Assured: €2,442
2003 Bonus: €44.87
Total bonus to date:€166.61
Bonus Rate:1.75%

There is an important notice regarding membership rights. As a member of the Royal Liver Assurance Limited you may wish to note that the Society is a mutual incorporated Friendly Society and, in accordance with its Rules, is governed by a Delegation System providing for the representation of all the members of the Society.

Hi

Has anyone tried to make contact with one of the delegates ?

- I for one, would like some clear answers to some of the questions raised above, relating to the society's performance, reserves etc in writting.

Cheers

G>
www.Rpoints.com/newbie

Hi,

Just trying to figure why all the attention is on RL saving policies. Would a life assurance policy (e.g. term/whole of life etc.) not be as likely to qualify for a potential windfall? I've shares in Aviva (former Norwich Union) paid to me on the basis of a small term policy I had at the time. Caledonian policies are cheap and competitive.

Thanks,

Joe.

"Just trying to figure why all the attention is on RL saving policies"

Savings policies are the only ones to give you full membership rights, which would give you far greater rights to a windfall. Other insurance products hold no such automatic rights.

Thanks Skittle.


Having got stung on taking out an equitable life savings policy in the hope of a windfall I don't think I'll go that route again! The RL membership rules seem to make the INBS membership rules look almost clearcut in comparison. (Sorry if I'm straying off the topic).

Joe.