Go Back   Askaboutmoney.com > General Financial Issues > Mortgage arrears, personal debt & negative equity - questions and case studies

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-12-2013, 05:35 PM
robert 200 robert 200 is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 76
Default Feedback On Irish Mortgage Holders Org.

I am a full-time BTL landlord with 5 investment properties in Dublin city. I bank with AIB. My total mortgage is 2.5M. The valuation on the properties amount to 1.8M.
I am paying full interest and a small amount of capital. I have recently submitted all relevant info to IMHO.

My ambition is to hold onto my portfolio longterm and increase capital repayments as rents improve.

I would be very interested in feedback from anyone who has dealt with IMHO or has recently done a deal with their bank.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-12-2013, 05:38 PM
Brendan Burgess Brendan Burgess is offline
 
Location: Dublin
Posts: 23,781
Default

The IMHO are the best people to deal with as they have a direct line to AIB.

However, if you want a second opinion, you should complete the
Standard Format for mortgage arrears Case Studies

Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-12-2013, 11:35 PM
eirman eirman is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Location: Dublin 3
Posts: 47
Default

At least 25% of landlords are in some kind of trouble with their lenders, and many of them are paying only some (or none) of the interest due.
As you are paying all your interest and more, I don't think you have too much to worry about in the short to medium term.

Your long term position is uncertain, given the increasing values of property and the possibility of increased interest rates.
Your approach to the IMHO at this stage is a wise move. Best of luck.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-12-2013, 07:41 AM
robert 200 robert 200 is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 76
Default

Thank you both .It is obviously to soon for feedback dealing with IMHO as it is such a new initiative .I suggest however a separate forum for BTL mortgage holders should be considered because of the greater powers the banks possess when dealing with BTL compared to PDH.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:35 AM
Brendan Burgess Brendan Burgess is offline
 
Location: Dublin
Posts: 23,781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert 200 View Post
.I suggest however a separate forum for BTL mortgage holders should be considered because of the greater powers the banks possess when dealing with BTL compared to PDH.
Hi Robert

I have moved the discussion of this suggestion to the Suggestion Box forum

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=184181
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:41 AM
Bronte Bronte is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 9,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert 200 View Post
My ambition is to hold onto my portfolio longterm and increase capital repayments as rents improve.

.
It might be an idea to look at each property individually and see how they are performing. With a view to maybe selling one of them if necessary.

Not sure I agree that banks have more power in relation to BTL versus a home. More likely it's because eviction is not acceptable in Irish society. Plus it's Government policy 'currently' that the family home is not to be touched. That could change. Particularly if the borrowers are not engaging and property prices go up.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:32 AM
robert 200 robert 200 is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 76
Default

One distinct difference between BTL and PDH is that if you do not make full interest and capital repayments the bank has the power to send in receivers or rent receivers and sell or manage the BTL property without your permission.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:45 AM
Bronte Bronte is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 9,345
Default

I understood that they only appoint rent receivers in the cases where landlords are not paying over the rent? Do you know different? If they appoint a rent receiver he has to be paid out of the rent, and other costs, so that would be stupid.

How do you mean they can sell, don't they have to get a court order?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-12-2013, 05:59 PM
robert 200 robert 200 is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 76
Default

A receiver appointed by a bank does NOT need a court order to sell a BTL property. ( unlike a PDH )

Earlier this year hundreds of RENT receivers were appointed by banks ( especially B.O.I ).

This venture proved disastrous as although they collected the rent they hadnt a clue how to manage or let property. Many landlords have since been handed back their keys only to find their properties half vacant.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13-12-2013, 10:36 AM
Bronte Bronte is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 9,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert 200 View Post
This venture proved disastrous as although they collected the rent they hadnt a clue how to manage or let property.
Well that doesn't surprise me one bit, it was bound to be a disaster. Sounds so easy, you just appoint someone to collect the rent and hey presto. Like no way. Cannot see how the bank would get even half the rent in such a scenario. Those big companies are not able to manage mickey mouse a property in Ballygobackwards, and tenant's will up and leave very quickly if the toilet is not fixed for a month when they have the pick of the town in rentals.

And the fun of the PRTB, finding tenants, getting deposits.....

Different story in Dublin I presume, particularly where it's say a large block of apartments, thatn the scale of it can make sense.

It's my understanding that even though the rent receiver is appointed by the bank, the owners is also his client.

Ultimately who is actually legally responsible for a) rental income tax b) PRTB c) property tax. d) nppr e) etc Is it the case that after agents expenses the rent is paid to the bank, but the owner is building up all a massive heap of problems, if yes, then owners would be better off if the bank repossessed and sold.

I don't understand your point about the rent receiver being able to sell the property without a court order?

I know someone whose tenants left because a rent receiver was appointed and they didn't like the 'legalise' letters they were receiving from them ( I think it was DNG), and when they left the carpets had to be taken up by the owner as they were beyond saving etc, but is the receiver going to spend money, he doesn't have, putting in new carpets and cleaning and painting.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 14-12-2013, 04:53 PM
robert 200 robert 200 is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 76
Default

There are 2 types of receivers when it comes to BTL properties.
1. A rent receiver ( who does exactly that )
2 A receiver - who has the authority to rent or sell the property without a court order.

I was hoping to get some feedback from BTL landlords who have done deals with
their banks. I have already stated my position and I will be meeting my bank ( AIB )
early in the new year - any info would be greatly appreciated .
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 14-12-2013, 08:47 PM
eirman eirman is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Location: Dublin 3
Posts: 47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert 200 View Post
I was hoping to get some feedback from BTL landlords who have done deals with their banks.
Me too! ... and any info on deals with the IMHO.
Of course any inside track information would be highly confidential and is unlikely to posted here for all to see.

Maybe someone will Pmail you with some info.
As you're a new user I think you have to get your post count up to 10 before you can send/receive Pmails.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 14-12-2013, 11:14 PM
breakonthru breakonthru is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert 200 View Post
I was hoping to get some feedback from BTL landlords who have done deals with
their banks
What sort of feedback are you looking for? 'Deals with banks' are tailored to ones circumstances. Please fill out the 'Standard Format for Mortgage Arrears' as recommended by Brendan, then feedback given will be of worth.

In my situation I continue to insist paying interest only on my BTL's until such a time that loan equals equity at which point I'll sell and clear debt / or when I deem my income sufficient to pay capital too.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 14-12-2013, 11:36 PM
robert 200 robert 200 is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 76
Default

Hi breakonthru ,

You cannot insist paying interest only on your BTL loan .If you read your terms and
conditions you will find that if you do not pay interest and principal - your bank can call
in a receiver at a time of their choosing and sell your BTL property without your consent.

25% of BTL are under water , there are deals happening every day , I am simply trying
to be armed with some knowledge before I meet with my bank next month.

This is a very general question the info I have given should be sufficient for some feedback
from landlords who have been there.

Happy Christmas
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 14-12-2013, 11:52 PM
breakonthru breakonthru is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert 200 View Post
You cannot insist paying interest only on your BTL loan
Well, in my circumstance my insistence paid through and I have another three year int. only agreement with PTSB. As long as portfolio is in negative equity they are loathe to repossess and capitalise their loss.

What sort of deal would you like / hope with your bank?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 15-12-2013, 12:17 AM
robert 200 robert 200 is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 76
Default

Thank you for that breakonthru , an agreement like yours would be wonderful . AIB have only done 1 year agreements up to now - a 3 year deal would be great for the stress levels . I hope we have other contributors .
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 15-12-2013, 11:55 AM
robert 200 robert 200 is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 76
Default

PTSB seem to be the easiest to deal with on BTL at the moment . A friend of mine can only pay 40% interest only and they have accepted this . On the other hand I know someone else who has offered BOI 120% and they are threatening him with rent receivers . I am going to offer AIB 130% for 3 years - so fingers crossed .
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 16-12-2013, 10:35 AM
Kine Kine is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Location: UK
Posts: 358
Default

3yrs Interest Only....Amend and Pretend!
__________________
What do you mean we're in recession?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 16-12-2013, 11:11 AM
eirman eirman is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Location: Dublin 3
Posts: 47
Default

In my opinion, AIB do not want to crystallize their losses while property is appreciating, so I firmly believe that your livelihood is secure in the short (and perhaps) medium term.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 16-12-2013, 11:41 AM
robert 200 robert 200 is offline
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 76
Default

I appreciate all your replies , I will let you know the outcome ASAP.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:02 AM.