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  #1  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:15 PM
Geotech Geotech is offline
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Default Riello rdb won't fire up

Hi, I am new to posting but was just wondering if anybody could help me.

My burner comes on like runs till its about to fire up then it makes a one click sound followed by a 3 sec buzzing sound and then goes to lock out and it keeps repeating this all day while pressing the small reset button beside thermostat, usually the burner fires up and makes a lovely sound like you were lighting petrol but that doesn't happen anymore.

I know a small bit about burners but I wouldnt have the testing equipment to know exactly what the problem is, I have opened the burner and cleaned out the photocell, oil nozzle, electrodes etc but it still won't work.

I think it's just an ignition problem because everything else seems to be in place unless it's a faulty component like the photocell etc, if anybody has any ideas it would be much appreciated.

Cheers
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:34 PM
miss lilac miss lilac is offline
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Hello Geotech, We are actually in a very similar position at the moment ourselves. We were running a little low on fuel but not low enough that it should cause a problem. The last fuel we purchased was up north and we are beginning to think that maybe this could be the problem. When we switch on the boiler is working but trips off within 1 minute. We have a firebird 50/90 so someone suggested we top up our fuel with a few drums of oil first to get the level up a bit more. ( just back from buying our 3 drums at a cost of 75.00) Crazy price. What husband has noticed since we start buying up north was that the little window where you would normally see the flame is getting all clogged up with soot. We were wondering if perhaps the fuel we bought up north was a cheap version and not as clean as when we buy kerosene here. Brother in law told him to clean the pipes going to the tank to make sure there is no dirt in them. He did that himself and his took off no problem so hubby now out trying to do that. Hopefully, fingers crossed it will work. Would it be the fuel I wonder? Just a suggestion. Another thing we noticed about the fuel from the north is that it certainly didnt last as long as when we buy here. Maybe not worth the trouble after all. Good luck to you. Hope you get sorted soon. Thank God its mild weather and we have an open fire too.
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:19 PM
pache pache is offline
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Hi geotech,
By what you have described it seems to point to the nozzle.
Did you say you cleaned the nozzle?? because thats a no no,it should be replaced with an identical nozzle.
Of course without the appropriate analyser your at nothing im afraid.
Hope this helps
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  #4  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:24 PM
Shane007 Shane007 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geotech View Post
Hi, I am new to posting but was just wondering if anybody could help me, my burner comes on like runs till its about to fire up then it makes a one click sound followed by a 3 sec buzzing sound and then goes to lock out......
This is a fuel problem, in that there is no fuel passing through the nozzle. Problem will be one of four problems, faulty fuel pump, faulty solenoid coil/valve, faulty control box or faulty/dirty nozzle.

First port of call is the fuel pump. You will need to connect a fuel pressure/vacuum gauge to the pump to test.

The internal fuel filter in the oil pump could be blocked but I would not recommend touching this if you are not trained.

Again, check the level of your fuel and the fuel type that you are burning first.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:04 PM
Geotech Geotech is offline
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The level is about half a tank and it's kerosene, when I checked the nozzle after I cleaned everything the first time there was oil on the nozzle again, I washed it with petrol and blew the nozzle before putting it back on, didn't seem to be blocked looks fairly new like every other part I checked, it could be the solenoid coil or the control box maybe, it's only after happening everything was fine before then, this hasn't been on and off and then it went, this has just happened yesterday for the first time, cheers
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  #6  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:09 PM
Shane007 Shane007 is offline
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You cannot clean nozzles. The opening is measured in 1,000th of mm. A speck of dirt will block it. Install a new nozzle.
Pump pressure must be checked as this is a common fault and you will not be able to determine this without a pressure or vacuum gauge.
You can check solenoid coil with a multimeter, measuring it's resistance.
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  #7  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:21 PM
Geotech Geotech is offline
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So do you reckon it's just the nozzle, I could blow through the nozzle so could there still be dirt in it, if so do you know where I can purchase one of these, smallmans, ranelagh maybe
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:27 PM
Shane007 Shane007 is offline
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I don't think it is the nozzle but as you have cleaned it yourself, you may have created a second problem. It is best to fit a new one. If it is blocked, you will not be able to clear it.
They can be purchased in most plumbing suppliers. If you tell me the boiler make and model I can tell you the correct nozzle, however, you will probably need a service call to determine the breakdown issue. Most service people will carry nearly all nozzle types, for example, I would always have approx 120 nozzles in the van at all times.
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  #9  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:46 PM
Geotech Geotech is offline
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It's a riello rdb2.2 heatpac s 90/120, also there was oil on the tip of the nozzle cap( when closed ) so there is definitely oil being pumped through the nozzle, I have the electrode assembly 3mm from the tip as per manual instruction but I was wondering if it's anything got to do with that,cheers
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:53 PM
Shane007 Shane007 is offline
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Nozzle: 0.85 80 S. Pump Pressure 9.0 Bar.

Pressure is only a guide as this may have to be adjusted depending on flue gas analysis results.

Electrodes should be about 2mm from nozzle with a gap of 4mm between the electrodes. This is not the issue here though. I still think you have poor pump pressure. After you try to fire the burner, remove the burner immediately and see if the blast tube is wet. If so, then it's probably the pump pressure. If not check the coil.
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  #11  
Old 11-02-2012, 12:02 AM
Geotech Geotech is offline
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No the blast tube is dry Shane, could it be the solenoid coil, cheers . .
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  #12  
Old 11-02-2012, 12:18 AM
Shane007 Shane007 is offline
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Yes, I would check the coil. Check its resistance across the coil for continuity. It could also be control box not opening the coil but there is no real test for control box as they have a pcb.
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  #13  
Old 11-02-2012, 12:37 AM
Geotech Geotech is offline
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Yes I have read that, someone used a friends control box to test if it was faulty, do I need the coil lead and wire into the box or do I just change the coil, cheers
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  #14  
Old 11-02-2012, 05:52 PM
Shane007 Shane007 is offline
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To be honest, I think you should still book in a service call. You should really make sure that you have safe electrical isolation before stripping the burner. There is in excess of 10,000 volts at the HT leads and electrodes. There is lots that you will be unaware of the needs to thought of to carry out a safe repair. You should be trained & competent in safe electrical isolation before attempting this work. The last thing I want is you lying electrocuted beside your boiler!

The service call will include setting the burner with flue gas analysis and ensure your burner is running at its optimum efficiency. You could have the flame chamber & baffles cleaned before the technician arrives. Just let him inspect the chamber and all the seals/furnace boards beforehand. It should then work out cheaper than you buying new parts that do not require changing and you will end up with a boiler that will be using less fuel at the same time.
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  #15  
Old 11-02-2012, 09:31 PM
Geotech Geotech is offline
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Yeah your right, I only got a service a few months ago through a friend of mine that said he was experienced but he didn't do much, he was only there a half an hour, which i know couldnt have been a proper service, when I cleaned the burner i turned off all power to the house and there wasn't a problem, I went and got the solenoid coil and oil nozzle this morning, and it's still the same sound. The fan comes on for about 10-15 secs then makes a small gurgling sound for 3 secs then goes to lock out and then red button stays lit, I pulled out the photoresistance and tried to start it but this time the fan stayed on with no gurgling sound so I reckon it's just a faulty photoresistance that's preventing it from starting up. My friend is away for the next 2 weeks and I was going to wait for him to come back, to get in contact with that other service guy that previously done the boiler, I know your saying it could cost much more buying parts for it when I can get a serviceman in, but I just wanted to try sort it myself if I could ye know, do you have any ideas, cheers. . .
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  #16  
Old 11-02-2012, 09:48 PM
Shane007 Shane007 is offline
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I still think it is the fuel pump. The only way of testing this is with a pump pressure/vacuum gauge. A kit will cost you approx €120 which is more expensive than the pump itself.
Would it not be better to get a technician in and get him to FGA the appliance at the same time.

Can you get your hands on a multimeter? You can test the photocell for continuity. They are basically a resistor that reacts with light and light will vary the resistance across the terminals. Holding the photocell to a light will show you a dramatic resistance change. A typical symptom of a faulty photocell would be the burner running continously without firing and not going to lock out.
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  #17  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:03 PM
Geotech Geotech is offline
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Well this would probably have happened already from trying to turn it on so many times, leaving it on constant hoping that it would fire up because to honest I think they have a mind of there own sometimes and one thing can lead to another, my friend is a sparks and he should have a multimeter, it could be the fuel pump aswell, it has probably been put through a lot over the past few years and its just worn out I suppose, can you tell me the reason the fans stays on without the photo resistance and when it's plugged in, it's sounds like it's trying to kick in but goes to lock out due to the delayed ignition of the burner( gurgling sound ) from what it sounds like is that it's just lacking something to ignite and I think once ye get it through that everything else will work grand, what you reckon Shane thanks for your replys they have been most helpful . . .
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2012, 11:34 PM
Shane007 Shane007 is offline
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Have a gander at this. It will guide you through a fault finding sequence.
http://paragon-energy.ie/doc/Burner_Fault_Finding.pdf

Some faults can be simple to solve remotely, but a burner lock out can be very difficult unless test equipment is attached to the burner to see what exactly is going on.
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2012, 11:53 PM
Geotech Geotech is offline
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Cheers I had a look and it seems to be pointing toward the fuel pump, but would there still be oil coming from the nozzle if this was the problem, how often would a phooresistance go faulty, looks fairly new and is clean so do you reckon it's the fuel pump, cheers
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  #20  
Old 12-02-2012, 12:02 AM
Shane007 Shane007 is offline
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Yes there could be fuel still passing through the nozzle. Pumps don't normally fail with no pressure at all but will have a much reduced pressure. Photocell is then not seeing the flame as it has not ignited and then goes to lock out. The photocell is a flame failure device so it is doing it's job.
You could remove the 4 x 4mm bolts from the side of the fuel pump and VERY VERY CAREFULLY remove the cover plate, check the internal filter and remove any debris inside. Do this at your own peril as it is a very intricate part and you could mess it up if you do not know what you are doing. If there is a lot of debris, sludge, water, etc. in this and the pump the problem still persists, then it is probably the pump.
If it is the pump, you will need a pressure gauge to set the correct pump pressure for your bunrer on the new pump anyhow.
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