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  #21  
Old 09-12-2011, 05:47 PM
Chris Chris is offline
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Originally Posted by Purple View Post
I don't think any state should have the right to sentence someone to death.
War is a different matter but I'm against the death penalty in any peacetime situation.
I'm with Purple on this, I don't think society has the right to take a life no matter how evil and inhumane the act is.
At the same time I do think that life sentences are too light, and certainly a misnomer. Dependent on the country a life sentence can mean anything from 15 to 40 years. To me that is not life. I'd much rather see the most evil people in society punished by living in a 6 by 8 cell for the rest of their living days, without all the luxuries that prisons entail these days; in cases such as the above mentioned I think that punishment and not rehabilitation should be the main objective.
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2011, 05:48 PM
Chris Chris is offline
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Me neither, I have a consistent life ethic. To dehumanise offenders and put them down like dogs would IMHO be ultimately detrimental to society as a whole.

Claims of mental illness or temporary insanity should only be entertained after verdicts are reached, in order to determine if the offender should serve the sentence in a prison or a secure hospital facility. If those serving a sentence in a hospital facility recover then ship them off to prison to complete their sentence.
Great post, Ii fully agree.
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  #23  
Old 09-12-2011, 05:50 PM
horusd horusd is offline
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I had to switch the channel after hearing a bit of this case, dreadful stuff. But I think death penalties are too much. A states duty to all its citizens must be to protect them and not kill them. Legal or non- legal barbarity is plain wrong. In the case of the state, acting on our behalf, it's kind of worse, there is something very wrong with a state setting out to legally murder someone- what would it say about us?

Anyway, I think a sentence for the rest of his natural life is better, death is too quick, and if there is a legal mistake in some (other) case, it's somewhat redeemable.
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  #24  
Old 10-12-2011, 03:44 PM
STEINER STEINER is offline
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I think 20 - 40 years in a prison is more punishing than a swift execution, preferably sharing a cell with a large dominant cellmate.
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  #25  
Old 10-12-2011, 03:53 PM
Ancutza Ancutza is offline
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As long as a risk exists of executing one single innocent person then the death penalty is unacceptable. There will always exist that risk therefore capital punishment is unacceptable.

And to those who say 'Aww, sure the odd innocent one is a small price to pay for being able to off a real monster' well then picture your, father, son, brother, sister, daughter or mother as being the one who is mistakenly accused and convicted.

I do agree, however, with whole-life sentences for certain crimes.
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  #26  
Old 10-12-2011, 08:33 PM
truthseeker truthseeker is offline
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Originally Posted by Complainer View Post
How can there be 'something mentally wrong' with their being a mental illness? What other kind of 'mentally wrong' is there?
Mentally wrong as in mentally defective - without getting into the definitions of mental illness, I was thinking along the lines of a human being missing a vital 'humanity' chip in the brain, not having empathy - and no hope of 'fixing' it.

Im not wholly against the death penalty for certain cases (like this or as I mentioned earlier, someone like Ted Bundy or Fritz) but because there is always the risk of someone innocent being put to death, I wouldnt like to see it in practice.

I think I see someone like this man as not quite human, an animal, a savage, 'something' that would be better off not being alive.
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  #27  
Old 10-12-2011, 09:07 PM
oldnick oldnick is offline
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It's morally wrong to kill any human being. The risk of killing an innocnet person is a risk too high.

But we are paying ca. 80.000 euros* a year to lodge,feed and protect him. Thats three million euros if he lives to a ripe old age.

So kill him.
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  #28  
Old 10-12-2011, 09:35 PM
Complainer Complainer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
Mentally wrong as in mentally defective - without getting into the definitions of mental illness, I was thinking along the lines of a human being missing a vital 'humanity' chip in the brain, not having empathy - and no hope of 'fixing' it.

Im not wholly against the death penalty for certain cases (like this or as I mentioned earlier, someone like Ted Bundy or Fritz) but because there is always the risk of someone innocent being put to death, I wouldnt like to see it in practice.

I think I see someone like this man as not quite human, an animal, a savage, 'something' that would be better off not being alive.
From the reports I read, it sounded more like a social failing than a genetic issue, but I suppose none of us are experts or know the full facts of the case.

I would be very, very concerned about the idea of euthanasia for people who have genetic defects - a bit too reminiscent of the Nazi era for me.
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  #29  
Old 11-12-2011, 02:43 AM
shesells shesells is offline
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I'm not in favour of the death penalty but I have an issue with the current prison system. It would be cheaper to put people up in a 5 star hotel than in prison, and prisoners make no contribution to the economy. Prison is also a guaranteed shelter, with three meals a day.

I'm not saying it's luxury but at a time when people are going hungry as they struggle to keep a roof over their heads, it just doesn't sit well with me that people who break the law and are sent to prison, are better off. Prison isn't much of a deterrent these days.
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  #30  
Old 11-12-2011, 10:28 AM
Ancutza Ancutza is offline
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I seriously think that the re-introduction of chain gangs should be considered. Let them sweep the streets, clean up the parks even labour on projects such as, let's say, Metro North.

Pay them a pittance to do so. The prison service should be able to contract their labour to local authorities hence helping to support the costs related to keeping them incarcerated.
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  #31  
Old 11-12-2011, 11:00 AM
Purple Purple is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancutza View Post
I seriously think that the re-introduction of chain gangs should be considered. Let them sweep the streets, clean up the parks even labour on projects such as, let's say, Metro North.

Pay them a pittance to do so. The prison service should be able to contract their labour to local authorities hence helping to support the costs related to keeping them incarcerated.
That sounds like a good idea in some respects (thought I’m not sure that it would either act as a deterrent or aid rehabilitation) but the costs of providing security, training, health and safety etc would probably mean it would be more expensive than just paying contractors.

I do think that community service should include non-skilled jobs like picking up litter.

The unions wouldn’t be too pleased with criminals undermining the jobs done by their members.
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  #32  
Old 11-12-2011, 01:31 PM
Ancutza Ancutza is offline
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The unions wouldn’t be too pleased with criminals undermining the jobs done by their members.
Of course that is where my proposal would fall down. You're quite right. I'm also sure someone would start bleating about how their civil rights were being infringed upon by being made to work, effectively, for free.

But it should be an option offered to low-risk prisoners who are otherwise behaving themselves inside.
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  #33  
Old 11-12-2011, 02:11 PM
Complainer Complainer is offline
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The HBO drama Oz showed how the prisoners there were engaged in call centre type work on the phones - maybe some opportunities there?
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  #34  
Old 11-12-2011, 02:15 PM
MrMan MrMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Complainer View Post
How can there be 'something mentally wrong' with their being a mental illness? What other kind of 'mentally wrong' is there?
I'm not an expert in the field, but for someone to do something like that I would feel that they are different to normal people in their mentality, it doesn't mean they are mentally ill, just evil.
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  #35  
Old 11-12-2011, 02:18 PM
oldnick oldnick is offline
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Its a good idea to train and use most criminals in productive work. It will save us money and will aid rehabilitation.
But we should kill child murdering, torturing and raping monsters

Last edited by oldnick; 11-12-2011 at 02:41 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #36  
Old 11-12-2011, 02:20 PM
MrMan MrMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Ancutza View Post
Of course that is where my proposal would fall down. You're quite right. I'm also sure someone would start bleating about how their civil rights were being infringed upon by being made to work, effectively, for free.

But it should be an option offered to low-risk prisoners who are otherwise behaving themselves inside.
Not so sure I'd like a serial rapist sweeping the road outside my house, you might also end up having to protect the prisoners from the public.
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  #37  
Old 11-12-2011, 02:22 PM
MrMan MrMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I'm with Purple on this, I don't think society has the right to take a life no matter how evil and inhumane the act is.
At the same time I do think that life sentences are too light, and certainly a misnomer. Dependent on the country a life sentence can mean anything from 15 to 40 years. To me that is not life. I'd much rather see the most evil people in society punished by living in a 6 by 8 cell for the rest of their living days, without all the luxuries that prisons entail these days; in cases such as the above mentioned I think that punishment and not rehabilitation should be the main objective.
You don't like the idea of society ending a life, but cage them up like battery hens and wait for them to die? It might ease your conscience, but it is pretty much just ordering a slow death.
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  #38  
Old 11-12-2011, 03:57 PM
Ancutza Ancutza is offline
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Not so sure I'd like a serial rapist sweeping the road outside my house, you might also end up having to protect the prisoners from the public.
You'll note, of course, that I specified low-risk prisoners. Shoplifters, burglars, car thieves, smugglers etc.

I don't think I'd be too happy with Ted Bundy pruning the roses either!
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  #39  
Old 11-12-2011, 04:56 PM
orka orka is offline
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In this particular case, I would like the addition of some Saudi-style justice - a man got 13 years and 2,000 lashes for raping his teenage daughter - with the 2,000 lashes spaced out over his sentence. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...19.html?via=mr
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  #40  
Old 11-12-2011, 05:19 PM
dam099 dam099 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orka View Post
In this particular case, I would like the addition of some Saudi-style justice - a man got 13 years and 2,000 lashes for raping his teenage daughter - with the 2,000 lashes spaced out over his sentence. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...19.html?via=mr
Makes a change from the usual Saudi style justice where the female victim is often the one being convicted of "adultery"....
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