Are some people using charities as lifestyle choices?

[ontour]

Originally Posted by micmclo

400 staff need to be paid before a cent gets used

I am fairly sure that most of the 400 workers are related to services provided for children and not administration of the charity. As Barnardos provides a service rather than direct or indirect financial assistance to parents it is less likely to be abused.

Barnardos do spend about €2.2m for fundraising activities. They raise €6.3m from general colections with the rest from statutory funding or foundations / legacies etc. There would appear to be a fair chunk of the money collected from the public going in to glossy adverts.

[Purple]

Charities have costs just like any other organisation or business. You can't expect people to work for nothing so their full time staff have to be paid. I don't see that as being a major issue. The question is how to they distribute their funds.
From what I have seen and heard first hand I would never give money to SVDP. I do support the Merchants Quay Project and a couple of homeless charities as well as a few charities concerned with overseas work but not the Vinnie De Paul.

[Complainer]

Originally Posted by ontour

There would appear to be a fair chunk of the money collected from the public going in to glossy adverts.

Which in turn lead to more money coming in as donations, presumably?

Originally Posted by Knuttell

My opinion on SVDP has not been formed on this thread,this is a well known problem that SVDP have...the inability to distinguish between worthy individuals and feckless chancers.

I'm always a bit dubious about 'well known problems' - it's just a bit too Joe Duffy or Adrian Kennedy for me.

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Hi Complainer, if we take the neighbour and his gossip out of the equation and read the above posts, there are comments by posters who have worked in charities and have vouched that this has happened.

Here's a mad suggestion. Go volunteer for SVdP for six months, and then you can see exactly how things work on the ground.

[Purple]

Originally Posted by Complainer

Here's a mad suggestion. Go volunteer for SVdP for six months, and then you can see exactly how things work on the ground.

That's how I formed my opinion of them though it was a few years back so things might have changed since.

[ontour]

Originally Posted by Complainer

Which in turn lead to more money coming in as donations, presumably?

Given your expertise, how much is acceptable to spend to make donations. Is it OK for a charity to spend 80c to get a donation of €1 ? That is 20c potentially going to a good cause but would the donator be happy that so much is going to the expense of collecting?

[shnaek]

Got to say I am very deliberate about the charities I fund. I've had personal experience with a charity mentioned in this post, and I haven't supported them since. I don't want to mention the charity or the incident, but I believe people should research their supported charities, rather than firing money at a random charity and believing their charitable conscience can now rest easy. We owe it to ourselves and to those in need to make sure that funds get into deserving hands and not the hands of wasters or criminals.

[micmclo]

Maybe just me but I'd rather go local then national or even international.

Lots of towns have a hospice or other worthy cause.

And if they do something like get an extension or new equipment you can even show up to the unveiling
Doesn't have to be a hospice, just giving a typical example for a town in Ireland. A Lyons club might be another example and serves your area

The local causes don't have the big brand or advertising but a few minutes on google will get you aware on what's going on in your area

[Complainer]

Originally Posted by ontour

Given your expertise, how much is acceptable to spend to make donations. Is it OK for a charity to spend 80c to get a donation of €1 ? That is 20c potentially going to a good cause but would the donator be happy that so much is going to the expense of collecting?

I have very little expertise in this area.

I understand and appreciate your concern, but the same logic applies to buying Persil or buying Nike. Is the buyer happy that 30%-50% of the sticker price goes towards advertising?

[ontour]

Originally Posted by Complainer

I understand and appreciate your concern, but the same logic applies to buying Persil or buying Nike. Is the buyer happy that 30%-50% of the sticker price goes towards advertising?

After I pay for the Persil, I don't really care what they do with the money, I have my washing powder and they have my money. I buy in to the marketing, brand recognition etc. and am paying a premium for that.

It is what the charity does with my money after I donate it that matters. The charity says they need my money for disadvantaged children and I am happy to donate. If I find out later that 30% went to the person who collected from me and 30% went to advertising, I would not feel that a sufficient % of the money went to the purpose for which they solicited it.

I think that the best thing that people donate is time. While certain charities may be imperfect in their distribution of financial assistance their volunteers do an amazing job at reaching out to those who are isolated or alone.

[Complainer]

Originally Posted by ontour

After I pay for the Persil, I don't really care what they do with the money, I have my washing powder and they have my money. I buy in to the marketing, brand recognition etc. and am paying a premium for that.

Indeed, it is a personal choice. The fact remains that many of us pay for large amounts of advertising in much of our daily spending.

Originally Posted by ontour

It is what the charity does with my money after I donate it that matters. The charity says they need my money for disadvantaged children and I am happy to donate. If I find out later that 30% went to the person who collected from me and 30% went to advertising, I would not feel that a sufficient % of the money went to the purpose for which they solicited it.

It is indeed a matter of personal choice. It also depending what way you look at it. Is it better for the charity to spend 100% of €10k on providing services, or to spend 60% of €100k on providing services, having spent the other €40k on advertising? Do you want them to be providing €10k of services with no advertising, or €60k of services with advertising?

Originally Posted by ontour

I think that the best thing that people donate is time. While certain charities may be imperfect in their distribution of financial assistance their volunteers do an amazing job at reaching out to those who are isolated or alone.

Fully agree.

[Purple]

Originally Posted by ontour

I think that the best thing that people donate is time. While certain charities may be imperfect in their distribution of financial assistance their volunteers do an amazing job at reaching out to those who are isolated or alone.

Big +1 to that. While I’d question where and how some charities spend their money I’d never criticise those that give of their time to help others.

[onq]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I got chatting to a neighbour the other evening that does a lot of charity work. He was telling me that there were people blatantly using charities as lifestyle choices.

Very disturbing to read of this - this is the opposite end of the spectrum to banks not passing on interest rates - terrible if true.

There was a case of a businessman availing of the hand-outs of a well-meaning charitable order while successfully still in operation.

Some foreign nationals seem to have certain charities on speed dial.

And the stories kept coming . . .

As most charities rely on some Government money and the hand-outs of the well-meaning public; should there be a further investigation into the individuals that are in receipt of regular donations or food parcels?

I think before you get intrusive you have to make a basic assessment of means looking at external evidence of income.
I'm not even going to get into monthly spending assessments.
Can they afford a foreign holiday each year?

What I mean is should the charity automatically take somebody's word for it when they say they cannot pay their utility bills?

Yes, for the nonce, because otherwise really needy people may avoid coming to charities out of pride.
But an assessment of skulduggery can occur over time as noted above.
I'm sure other posters can list other parmeters which could be addressed.
I list foreign holidays as opposed to running two cars because winning business in the private sector can require transport and the battle of the car park can be decisive in some business minds.
That having been said, there are not a few people wobbling around town on bicycles with an air of moral superiority and physical fitness about them which may signal a sea change in relation to this attitude...

[Complainer]

Originally Posted by onq

Can they afford a foreign holiday each year?

Just for the record, many foreign holidays are cheaper than equivalent Irish holidays!

[onq]

Ummm ... suggested yardstick?

[Knuttell]

Originally Posted by Complainer

Just for the record, many foreign holidays are cheaper than equivalent Irish holidays!

In fairness,If you are at the point where you genuinely need charitable assistance then there should be no talk of holidays...foreign or domestic.

[ali]

I think that this is one of the admirable things about SVDP: it's not an 'inability' to make distinctions, but their generosity towards those that ask for their help, whatever their circumstances. I can see how this mightn't be how everyone wants their charitable donation used, but some charities by choice take a deep breath and 'judge not.'

I know of someone close who received direct help from the SVDP. It happened 3 years ago this Christmas. The woman in her late 30's has a lovely house in South Dublin with 2 cars in the drive and all the trappings of a comfortable lifestyle. She told me how an elderly man called up to her house one evening before Christmas in a battered micra and delivered an envelope containing €200 cash and €200 in Tesco vouchers. He didn't ask questions or query the beautiful home and candles and decorations. He just said I'm from the Saint Vincent de Paul and wished her a happy Christmas.

In effect this woman was penniless. Redundancy, arrears and bills piling up on her and one morning in desperation she had phoned the SVDP more for guidance than in the expectation of receiving something. She still tears up at the unconditional nature of this giving. She only told me about it this month (she is in better circumstances now and never wanted to advertise her lowest ebb) and she still gets emotional about it. She was always the one with the direct debit to concern or whatever and never thought she would be in the situation. I know her very well and never guessed.

I think you have to balance the chancers with the genuinely needy and shouldn't assume that using charity as a lifestyle choice applies to people who on the surface look well off.

A.

[blueband]

well said ali. you cannot judge a book by its cover, or person by how they look.

[Knuttell]

Originally Posted by ali

I know of someone close who received direct help from the SVDP. It happened 3 years ago this Christmas. The woman in her late 30's has a lovely house in South Dublin with 2 cars in the drive and all the trappings of a comfortable lifestyle. She told me how an elderly man called up to her house one evening before Christmas in a battered micra and delivered an envelope containing €200 cash and €200 in Tesco vouchers. He didn't ask questions or query the beautiful home and candles and decorations. He just said I'm from the Saint Vincent de Paul and wished her a happy Christmas.

Could she not have sold one if not both the cars in the drive,settled outstanding finance if any and use that money to tide her over?

[Lex Foutish]

Originally Posted by Purple

My own direct experience of working with two charities that work in Ireland are very different.
One was very careful about what they spent their money on and how much they gave.
The other, with Vincent in the name, gave to all and sundry. They had a policy of never saying No.
Therefore I don’t think that we can make generalisations about charities and how they spend their money but I would say that yes, there are definitely people who use charities to subsidise relatively comfortable lifestyles instead of working.

Mrs. Foutish absolutely refuses to contribute or donate anything to V de P. Too many stories of free loaders and those not in need sponging off them. She donates everything to Simon. Homelessness of Irish people breaks her heart!

Originally Posted by micmclo

I know the argument about needing good salaries so you get competant people to manage charities.
Even with the paycuts I wonder how much of your donation ever makes it to the person who it is intended for?


400 staff need to be paid before a cent gets used

I also have heard the stories about SVDP and helping chancers, the common story of no money for food but money for sky sports but the people on the ground are volunteers.
Maybe SVDP are loaded down with salaried administrators but I've not heard of it and I think more of the money would get where it's supposed to go

I could never donate anything to Barnardos. I cannot abide Fergus Finlay. Every time I see him, I see a Labour spin doctor, a man who was able to spin to suit whatever his agenda was at the time.

Leopards don't change their spots..............

[Purple]

Originally Posted by Lex Foutish

Mrs. Foutish absolutely refuses to contribute or donate anything to V de P. Too many stories of free loaders and those not in need sponging off them. She donates everything to Simon. Homelessness of Irish people breaks her heart!

Yes, The Simon Community do great work.

Originally Posted by Lex Foutish

I could never donate anything to Barnardos. I cannot abide Fergus Finlay. Every time I see him, I see a Labour spin doctor, a man who was able to spin to suit whatever his agenda was at the time.

Leopards don't change their spots..............

I think that’s unfair. I find Finlay to be arrogant and he exudes that smug moral superiority common in rich socialists but I do think his motives are genuine. I also think he’s a very capable person and he’s a major asset to Bernardo’s.