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  #1  
Old 22-04-2010, 05:14 PM
AlisonN
 
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Default Cost of block built wall

Hi

Im new to the site so this is my first post.

Just wondering if anyone can tell the approximate cost of getting a block built wall done. It would be 30ft long by 6ft high and just single blocks.

Thanks in advance.

Alison
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  #2  
Old 22-04-2010, 05:24 PM
anthony 1 anthony 1 is offline
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hi there.. approx 220 blocks including pillars/labour for blocklayer/labourer mixing sand and cement/ sand.cement/
you'd be looking at anywhere from 800- 1200
this is not allowing for foundations! is there foundations there>>?
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  #3  
Old 22-04-2010, 05:53 PM
onq onq is offline
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Your single block wall 6ft [1.8M] high wall will not comply with current building codes.

It also needs to be divided as a minimum into 6M or 20 ft lengths with an expansion joint with each section independently buttressed.

Single blockwork cannot be supported to 1.8 metres in height without buttresses every few metres and you usually only see such walls between houses.

Where the wall is exposed to significant wind loads, i.e. a back garden, you might need to build it of 215mm hollow blocks with buttresses, or blocks laid on the flat, buttressed.

Construction details like this should be discussed with your engineer and not rest on the advice of any tradesman less than a master blocklayer or master bricklayer.

The lower levels in the trades just rest on what they've seen done and hasn't blown down yet or worse still, you'll end up talking to some wide boy gerrybuilder who knows a little of everything.

You also need to take advice on your foundation design which may have to avoid tree roots if the wall on a boundary and may have to allow for relief holes below ground if there is a high water table.

Be prepared for some variation in water run off due to your new risign wall, depending on the prevailing groundwater movements - this could lead to local minor flooding after heavy rain in a neighbours garden or yours.

Building a long wall is not as easy as it looks.

Unless its to the rear of a residential property, you may need permission.

Even within a house site or bounding it, the height of a wall cannot exceed 1.2M to the front or 2.0M to the rear without permission.

For a wall built without permission to be exempted it may need to be both rendered and capped and if you build on a boundary, discuss it with your neighbour.

My best advice to you is to talk to an engineer and dig a trial hole before you proceed, to know what you're getting into - otherwise you may find you'll be building the new wall more than once.

--------------------------------

ONQ.

http://www.oneillquigley.eu

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
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  #4  
Old 22-04-2010, 06:11 PM
Sconhome Sconhome is offline
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All free standing boundary walls above 1.20m in height must be build using 9" blockwork and can go to a maximum of 2.10m above adjacent soil level (include capping).
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  #5  
Old 23-04-2010, 01:58 PM
ronny78 ronny78 is offline
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What are the guidelines for limits on heights/lengths of walls when building with 4" solid blocks ? All the boundary walls in our estate are built with 4" blocks.

I actually want to do a bit of work on our sloping up away from the house back garden, but was concerned about the proximity to one of these walls. Its about 40 feet across with pillars at 8-10 foot intervals and is about 2m high. There is a proper foundation. The bottom 6 rows are block on flat but I think that was done because the neighbours garden is higher than ours so their soil/grass actually covers most of them on their side. Any advice on what to do to make such a wall safe in the event of wanting to do a bit of digging ?

Thanks in advance,
R-
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  #6  
Old 23-04-2010, 02:13 PM
Sconhome Sconhome is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny78 View Post
What are the guidelines for limits on heights/lengths of walls when building with 4" solid blocks ? All the boundary walls in our estate are built with 4" blocks.

R-
1.20m high.
Pillars at maximum of 6m intervals with expansion / contraction joints.
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  #7  
Old 16-09-2010, 09:24 AM
abc1234 abc1234 is offline
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ONQ you advise that" Construction details like this should be discussed with your engineer and not rest on the advice of any tradesman less than a master blocklayer or master bricklayer."

Can you advise on how best to find an engineer for this kind of job.

I need to get quotes for a quite extensive garden wall - site slopes and has other features, so I know that it is not a straightforward job to be given to the first brikkie that comes along... but I don't know where to get the right advice.

Any tips much appreciated (South Dublin area) or if you could PM me any names I could contact?

thanks in advance
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Old 16-09-2010, 11:28 AM
build4less build4less is offline
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Guys no point making a mountain out of a mole hill here. The girl just wants to build a straight forward wall. And by the sounds of it if she gets her hands on a good blocklayer this would be a straight forward job providing there are no anomilies we do not know about with the conditions of the area in which this wall will be built.

Bringing in an engineer to design a garden wall makes me laugh, all this is doing is creating an expense that may not need to be incurred. A good builder (not gerry builder) will do this for her with his eyes closed for god sake.

Stop complicating a simple job and get on with it.

Alison yes you will need pillers on your wall as outlined in the previous threads. You are staying within the 1.2m height for a 4" wall so your fine but if you go higher than this you will need to go 225mm. This is a 4" on the flat, this will also double the amount of blocks you use and you will still need pillars.

You will need approx 6" of concrete for your foundations and a bit of re-bar steel in this would not go astray. Give the concrete a few days to set and away you go. I have often build on foundations for a house the following morning after pouring the concrete in the evening before.

If there are water table issues just put some weep holes in the blockwork approx 50mm wide x 225mm high along the bottom course of blockwork to allow any water flow not to build up in anyones garden.

Simple job done in a few days if we were all to listen to the other threads it would take a month to do and a mile of costs to go with it.

Build4less.ie
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  #9  
Old 16-09-2010, 01:09 PM
onq onq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abc1234 View Post
ONQ you advise that" Construction details like this should be discussed with your engineer and not rest on the advice of any tradesman less than a master blocklayer or master bricklayer."

Can you advise on how best to find an engineer for this kind of job.

I need to get quotes for a quite extensive garden wall - site slopes and has other features, so I know that it is not a straightforward job to be given to the first brikkie that comes along... but I don't know where to get the right advice.

Any tips much appreciated (South Dublin area) or if you could PM me any names I could contact?

thanks in advance
At the risk of highjackign this thread [mods please thread split if appropriate] I'll venture this reply.

The answer to your question is not as straightforward as you might have expected from reading the reply you refer to.
For wall on a sloping site in an area of high amenity value and possibly good orientation and/or views I would advise you retain a good designer.

This is because the design of a substantial boundary wall can enhance a property or else devalue it, if it is done crudely or inappropriately for the main house.
Getting advice from an engineer and a builder on construction details doesn't offer advice any on designing the wall in relation to its materials and appearance or planning constraints.

To some this may sound a bit over the top, but on a sloping site there may be several planning issues even where you intend to keep the heights within the exempted development limits.
  • at certain points due to the slope you may exceed the heights allowed [1.2M to the front and 2.0M to the rear if memory serves]
  • the property may be protected and so building walling of exempted height is be allowed under the planning laws
  • the property may be in a listed view and you may have difficulty building walls at all if they interfere with it
  • there may be protected stands of trees on the boundary which will require special foundation details
  • where there are unprotected trees you may attract the ire of neighbours who like them and who may threaten legal action.
  • If you intend to build a higher wall that existing front and/or rear, you may be well-advised to agree details and drawings of same with your neighbour,
Where you intend it to be a substantial, say 8ft [2.43M] plus high, wall for security and privacy purposes, there is a definite planning issue and materials and detailing need very careful consideration.
Even a "bare" rendered blockwork wall will need to be broken into 6M sections for expansion joints and each section will require piers of windposts to support it against the prevailing winds, which regularly reach gale force and higher near the coasts.
In addition, where this is to be a substantial masonry wall, a properly designed foundation will be required taking full account of varying ground conditions along its length to avoid differential settlement.

Our comments above are based on several years of experience dealing both with clients who value their security and the various planning offices around Meath Kildare Wicklow and Dublin.

I would advise therefore, that before you go out to price you need to have something to price for.
Commissioning a mason to build a wall and letting a mason away on a sloping site without
  • a proper survey
  • an economic foundation design
  • wall details agreed
  • permission achieved
  • a cost estimate
may be one of those construction black holes you hear about, regardless of being held up by a grumpy litigious neighbour or having to sort out an enforcement action.

In relation to moving matters forward, its horses for courses.
You may find a competent engineer with a design flair who will design the wall, and a blockie who can turn his hand to stonework, but the team I would advise for the walling work above is
  • architect - planning and design
  • engineer - specialist foundation design
  • stonemason - building granite walling 2.4M + high.
  • general contractor - building foundations, attendances on mason, scaffolding, site management stone delivery and storage
I have found that with a team like this, there is no huge overlap in duties.
There are just logical meeting points with each person or firm sticking to what they are good at, and all of them competent to do their own work.

In terms of this specific job, and selecting people to offer prices and carry out the work, with respect can I suggest that may be a little down the road.
For example if I were doing this again, even though the people I used before might be still available, who exactly would do a similar job today would depend on a lot of factors.
Masonry work is a hard life and the skills aren't always passed down the line, so I don't know even if the Mason would be there and all Masons need minding and good attendances.

The most important thing is the kind of wall you want and the wall you'll be let build if it needs permission.
Masonry wall finishes/materials include; -
  • random rubble granite or limestone walling
  • coursed random rubble granite or limestone walling,
  • 6M precast wall sections
  • drystone flint walling
  • brickwork to English or Flemish bond.
Each type of wall finish may require a different person of firm to carry it out, because some skills are not that easily transferable.
Someone who is an artist at doing a random rubble wall may not have the discipline to build a brickwork wall with horizontal bedding joints and vertically aligned perpends.
Neither of them may be up to building a dry stone wall in flint which seems to be an art in itself and none of the wall builders will be involved if you choose to go with precast sections.

ONQ.

http://www.oneillquigley.eu

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
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  #10  
Old 16-09-2010, 01:32 PM
onq onq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by build4less View Post
Guys no point making a mountain out of a mole hill here. The girl just wants to build a straight forward wall. And by the sounds of it if she gets her hands on a good blocklayer this would be a straight forward job providing there are no anomilies we do not know about with the conditions of the area in which this wall will be built.

Bringing in an engineer to design a garden wall makes me laugh, all this is doing is creating an expense that may not need to be incurred. A good builder (not gerry builder) will do this for her with his eyes closed for god sake.

Stop complicating a simple job and get on with it.

Alison yes you will need pillers on your wall as outlined in the previous threads. You are staying within the 1.2m height for a 4" wall so your fine but if you go higher than this you will need to go 225mm. This is a 4" on the flat, this will also double the amount of blocks you use and you will still need pillars.

You will need approx 6" of concrete for your foundations and a bit of re-bar steel in this would not go astray. Give the concrete a few days to set and away you go. I have often build on foundations for a house the following morning after pouring the concrete in the evening before.

If there are water table issues just put some weep holes in the blockwork approx 50mm wide x 225mm high along the bottom course of blockwork to allow any water flow not to build up in anyones garden.

Simple job done in a few days if we were all to listen to the other threads it would take a month to do and a mile of costs to go with it.

Build4less.ie

Build4less,

Advising on foundation design without knowing local ground conditions or wind conditions does not seem to follow best practice.
Building a 225mm solid block wall off a 150mm deep strip foundation with "a bit of rebar" thrown in does not seem to be best practice either.

TGD A requires a 200mm minimum depth for house foundations, and houses are better buttressed against wind than long walls;
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publication...ad,1639,en.pdf
You could argue that the rebar could reduce this, but the lessened cover on the steel and the usual lack of proper preparation suggests this is unwise.
You don't mention preparing the trenches by tamping them down, checking for soft spots and filling them, blinding with sand or lean mix - is this not still done?
You also don't seem to mention "breaking" the wall into 6m or 12m sections to allow for expansion joints or to locate piers either side of the joint for proper buttressing.

As regards groundwater flow, you need a comment from an engineer on this because underground weep holes can be blocked and may not relieve pressure quicly enough in a flood.
With a heavy groundwater flow at peak periods over an impervious layer, you may need to equalise the pressure along the wall using a french drain - very little cost and could save the wall.
I have seen a seven foot block wall at the back of a house fall into an adjoining piece of land because there were no above ground weep holes to relieve the pressure on it in an area known to flood.

Similarly if there is a "hollow" in the rock formation beneath the soils, it may be better to bridge it using a ground beam anchored to the rock rather than trying to fill it with cubes of concrete.
Its not about expensive advice and expensive building costs - its about competent appropriate advice leading to competent work with affordable building costs.
There is a lot more to building a wall well, taking in all the conditions, than at first meets the eye.

ONQ.

http://www.oneillquigley.eu

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
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  #11  
Old 16-09-2010, 01:36 PM
onq onq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny78 View Post
What are the guidelines for limits on heights/lengths of walls when building with 4" solid blocks ? All the boundary walls in our estate are built with 4" blocks.

I actually want to do a bit of work on our sloping up away from the house back garden, but was concerned about the proximity to one of these walls. Its about 40 feet across with pillars at 8-10 foot intervals and is about 2m high. There is a proper foundation. The bottom 6 rows are block on flat but I think that was done because the neighbours garden is higher than ours so their soil/grass actually covers most of them on their side. Any advice on what to do to make such a wall safe in the event of wanting to do a bit of digging ?

Thanks in advance,
R-
We can't give competent advice on specific safety issues like this on AAM.

This needs to be inspected by a building professional and assessed.

ONQ.

http://www.oneillquigley.eu

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
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  #12  
Old 17-09-2010, 12:58 PM
build4less build4less is offline
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onq,

I did not go into every detail into how to build a garden wall but just some general advise on how it could be done with out making a meal out of it. I did say however assuming that all ground conditions were correct and adaquate than a standard foundation will suffice. It is not a house she is building,it is a garden wall and I have never build a house on 200mm of concrete foundations either as you suggest, minimum I have ever done is 300mm (is this not standard practice). I except the fact that all is not rosey in the garden all the time when it comes to building a wall but lets be honest provided all is in order with ground conditions its not rocket science.
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Old 17-09-2010, 01:36 PM
onq onq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by build4less View Post
onq,

I did not go into every detail into how to build a garden wall but just some general advise on how it could be done with out making a meal out of it. I did say however assuming that all ground conditions were correct and adaquate than a standard foundation will suffice. It is not a house she is building,it is a garden wall and I have never build a house on 200mm of concrete foundations either as you suggest, minimum I have ever done is 300mm (is this not standard practice). I except the fact that all is not rosey in the garden all the time when it comes to building a wall but lets be honest provided all is in order with ground conditions its not rocket science.
Correct build4less, its Building Science.

And for the record, nowhere in my post did I assume or infer you had built a house on a 6"/150mm deep strip foundation.
You mentioned the 150mm as a working depth for a wall foundation, I rebutted it and qualified the rebuttal.

What I said was

"Building a 225mm solid block wall off a 150mm deep strip foundation with "a bit of rebar" thrown in does not seem to be best practice either.
TGD A requires a 200mm minimum depth for house foundations, and houses are better buttressed against wind than long walls;"


I didn't even say anywhere that you had built houses - I don't know what you've built

BTW, did you not hear about the wall just below the school near the Dropping Well getting blown over a few years back?
These things do happen and the builder is usually long gone when it takes place.

ONQ.

http://www.oneillquigley.eu

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
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  #14  
Old 17-09-2010, 02:45 PM
build4less build4less is offline
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No sorry did not here about that wall but yes I except that garden walls do get blown over. Ive seen plenty of gable walls blow over in the wind and that is not a nice sight, especially when you see grown men running for there lives.

The 150mm depth foundation I refered to was purly for garden walls not anything else. It would be a depth I would have worked to for garden walls provided everything else was in order ie ground conditions. Thats all.
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